Minimalist Beauty, Integrity in Ingredients & Skin Health with Neada Deters
Posted posted on December 12, 2025
On This Week's Episode:
What if doing less for your skin actually gave you better results?
Dr Rossi sits down with Neada Deters, founder of LESSE and former beauty editor, to unpack why modern skincare routines have become overcomplicated and, in many cases, damaging.
Together, they break down how active overload weakens the skin barrier, why formulation integrity matters more than buzzworthy ingredients, and how the beauty industry benefits from keeping routines complex. They also dive into the Australian sunscreen scandal and what it exposes about global manufacturing standards.
This conversation is about skin integrity, long term results, and why minimalist routines often outperform 10 to 12 step regimens.
Guest Bio:
Neada Deters is the founder and CEO of LESSE, a minimalist skincare brand rooted in ingredient transparency, formulation integrity, and long term skin health. Originally from Sydney, Australia, Neada spent over a decade working as a beauty editor, where she tested countless products and interviewed leading experts across the industry. That experience left her questioning the idea that more products and more actives lead to better skin.
After struggling personally with cystic acne, sensitivity, and hyperpigmentation, Neada began stripping her routine back and focusing on fewer, higher-quality formulas. When she could not find products that met her standards, she decided to create them herself. She founded LESSE in 2018 with the goal of developing botanically driven, clinically informed formulas that support the skin barrier rather than overwhelm it.
Now based in New York, Neada leads LESSE as an independent, female-founded brand known for its thoughtful sourcing, sustainable practices, and intentional approach to skincare. Her philosophy centers on doing less, but doing it better, and helping people build routines that prioritize skin integrity, clarity, and consistency over trends.
Episode Transcript:
DR: I really struggled with my skin, just frustration at my skin, not showing up in the way that I wanted it to.
DR: Everyone talks about more, more steps, more actives, but what if better skin actually comes from less?
DR: Can minimalism coexist with results?
DR: Neada Deters, founder of lesse, a certified organic skincare brand rooted in ritual, sustainability, and simplicity.
ND: I’m an absolute mushroom fanatic, and I’m very excited about using more mushrooms in our future formulas, actually.
ND: Many people would feel super dumb.
ND: Official formulas. There are so many brands that grow so many actives into a compound and we sort of know there’s diminishing returns.
ND: Quick band aid results don’t translate into any kind of sustainable transformation.
DR: Neada, I’m so happy to have you on the show today.
DR: When I first met you, I feel like I resonated with your personality and your ethos about skincare, also life.
DR: So pleasure to have you on. Thank you for coming.
ND: Thank you so much for having me. I absolutely felt the same.
DR: Oh, awesome.
ND: I moved to New York and I am now a writer and an editor and I am focused on beauty.
ND: So I’m speaking to skincare experts from around the world. I am testing and reviewing products.
ND: I am analyzing ingredient lists and doing deep research into ingredients, their benefits and how they’re derived and really how they interact with the skin.
ND: Well over a decade, I really struggled with my skin.
ND: So I had cystic acne, hyperpigmentation, and very sensitive skin, which I know we both have sensitive skin.
DR: We’re bonded.
ND: Yeah. We are bonded by that.
ND: And so I was looking at these samples that I was being sent because as an editor, you really do try it all.
ND: I was analyzing these for review for our readers, but also really trying to find a solution for my own skincare woes.
ND: I really struggled to find anything that was effective in treating the all too common issues that I was dealing with and that used really high quality natural ingredients.
ND: And I recognize that there was, at least in my eyes, a lack of innovation through the use of natural ingredients.
ND: And yet we have this incredible category known as active botanicals.
DR: Oh, yeah.
ND: So that is where you really see the synthesis of science and nature come together.
ND: After quite a number of years of really thinking this through and starting to dream up these formulas that I knew would be so supportive of my skin and its needs, I finally realized that if I wanted these solutions, I was going to have to create them myself.
ND: And so I retired from editorial.
ND: Of course, jumped on a plane straight to LA, cut away from the noise of New York for a bit to begin formulating what is now lesse.
DR: Amazing. That’s a brilliant story. I love that.
DR: And I love how you’re taking what you learned in childhood and then also applying it to issues you had as an adult.
DR: Skin cancer capital of the world. And they’ve really done a great job about educating kids and parents about protecting themselves from the sun.
DR: I mean, I think education is everything when it comes to skincare and sun protection.
ND: Absolutely. I mean, I think for some people, it almost takes a level of indoctrination.
ND: But truly it is meaningful education that you get from such a young age.
ND: And so you and I have talked about this before, but my childhood, I was in a long sleeve rash guard, thick zinc layer all over my face, a hat with a flap at the back, tent on the beach, that kind of level of protection.
ND: I am grateful for it. And it was definitely informative in terms of me really thinking about my skin as a really central part of my health.
ND: So often I think people disregard how interconnected and how important skin is when it comes to our health and well being.
ND: How our skin is both a reflection of and kind of a portal to our health and systems in our body.
ND: So being from Australia, you learn that from a very young age.
DR: That’s amazing.
DR: Skin cancer. I actually had a basal cell, which is the most common type of skin cancer.
DR: And when you realize that you really can intervene and protect yourself, it’s really important.
DR: And I just wish that message got out to more and more Americans.
ND: Completely. And it’s so important to protect your skin from a very young age, but throughout your entire life.
ND: My husband knows how rigorous I am in terms of using nutrient dense and multi beneficial formulas that take care of the complexity for you.
ND: Because when you are overlayering, that can actually compromise your skin barrier.
ND: So it’s really about the quality of the formulas that you’re using.
ND: We really live and die by that philosophy at lesse.
ND: Of course, the name lesse derives from the philosophy of less is more.
ND: So that’s really central to what we do and the way we think about skincare.
DR: And how do you protect it as a brand philosophy?
DR: Because I think it’s so easy for us to just keep expanding.
DR: But you really created this nice curated formulation.
ND: I love this question.
ND: I have to agree. When I tried all of your products, the formulas are so elegant.
ND: Of course, with my curious mind, I had to look at the ingredient lists and really loved each and every one of them.
DR: Same about you. Thank you.
ND: In terms of integrity, this is something that is so important to us.
ND: It’s kind of the foundation of the way that we think about everything that we do at lesse.
ND: And we think about it both biologically and we also think about it philosophically.
ND: When we are thinking about skin integrity biologically, we’re obviously thinking about how can we support the function of the skin.
ND: How can we provide exceptional microbiome supportive formulas that will continue to build resilience and allow the skin to flourish long term.
ND: Versus focusing on quick band aid results that don’t necessarily translate into any kind of sustainable transformation.
ND: And I think that is a myth that we need to hit on the head as we start to become more aware that you’re building a sustainable skincare regimen and brand.
DR: Thank you.
DR: I do think that the industry is so often focused on trends.
ND: Oh, for sure.
DR: Trending ingredients. Social media doesn’t help.
ND: Exactly. We hear about one ingredient, one kind of system or one kind of form of application.
ND: Anyway, we need to move beyond trends.
DR: Yeah.
ND: And that’s so important.
ND: It’s focusing on the real science behind what skin requires to function well, to heal quickly.
ND: That’s the direction in which we’re moving as an industry and hopefully as a society when we think about skin.
ND: We can give as much of a nudge as possible, but people are constantly looking for the change that they want to see.
ND: As someone who struggled with my skin for so long, and still I’m so careful about my skin because I know how reactive it can be.
ND: How easily I can step one foot wrong and I’ll be struggling with my skin again.
ND: So it’s all about consistency.
DR: How do you talk about sustainability with consumers from a brand perspective without it feeling too marketing or too gimmicky or just a checkbox?
ND: I think sustainability is interesting because sustainability is such a marketing term.
ND: So I think this is a great topic to touch upon.
ND: I believe in showing through action, ensuring that what you say you do, you’re putting into practice before you even begin to speak to it.
ND: We have all of these sustainable practices that we adhere to at lesse, but I think we could talk about it so much more than we do.
ND: Often we’re just so busy with the actual act of ensuring that we are successful in reaching those standards day after day.
ND: For us, it’s about committing to the evolution and the potential of what sustainable innovation lies ahead.
ND: People often see sustainability as an endpoint.
ND: We have an idea of what is sustainable today in this context, but ultimately we hope that sustainability will progress.
ND: We’ll see more and more sustainable solutions moving forward.
ND: And being a brand, especially a brand that is putting products out into the world, if we can commit to embracing more sustainable solutions as they become available, that matters.
DR: You know what was interesting in Australia, there was this whole big scandal.
DR: We’re going to spill the tea a little bit now.
ND: Yeah. Let’s go.
DR: About this whole sunscreen scandal.
DR: All these different brands were really just manufactured by the same formula manufacturer.
DR: They were all the same formula or the base formula, and it didn’t really live up to the SPF and UVA protection that it said it did.
DR: That’s really disappointing because people rely on these as medical OTC products, OTC drugs, and they need to protect their skin.
DR: What happened there?
DR: Was it a bad batch? A bad manufacturer? Less integrity in the skincare space?
ND: I would love to speak more to a broader issue in the industry.
ND: People are pushing and rushing.
ND: They are not slowing down in order to ensure that the product is safer and is made with more integrity.
ND: And I think that this applies to sunscreen and it applies across the board to all skincare products.
ND: What you apply to your skin, is there anything more intimate and personal than your skincare practice?
ND: It is this moment, morning and night, where you reconnect with yourself, where you’re truly showing deep care, not just for your skin, but for yourself.
DR: You know, I worked in different sub Saharan African countries where they’re putting compounds on that have high levels of mercury to lighten the skin.
DR: That gets absorbed and that’s scary.
DR: And unfortunately, like you said, there’s this push and rush and anxiety about putting out more and more SKUs.
DR: And you lose the integrity of the formulas and the rigorous testing.
DR: So kudos to you. You’re very calming. I love it.
ND: Thank you.
ND: It’s all about supporting our skin to that place where we really are seeing the results and then ensuring that we are keeping up the good work to sustain that level.
ND: And also, of course, we want to see compounding benefits over time.
DR: You say it so eloquently.
DR: Like you said, the fads are just endless.
DR: And now people are making skincare at home and all sorts of things.
DR: Please don’t buy skincare from a farmer’s market.
ND: No.
DR: What do you think the new wave of skincare or the future of skincare is?
DR: Is it going to be science based? Is it going to be slow beauty? Is it a combination of both?
ND: I think you hit it on the head. It’s a combination of both.
ND: Taking your time goes hand in glove with a more scientific approach.
ND: You can be truly beneficial without overwhelming the skin.
ND: I hope that slow becomes viewed as more of an intentional approach.
DR: I think you’re right.
DR: So many people ask me, you should come out with these SKUs and those SKUs.
DR: And I’m like, it’s not intentional. If it’s not intentional for me, I don’t want to do it.
DR: There’s a lot of big brands who just constantly roll out SKUs and then discontinue old ones.
DR: People are amazed that we only use very few things, and you can still achieve great results.
ND: Absolutely agree with that.
ND: And to your point about brands launching a bunch of products and then discontinuing them, it’s so important that once someone becomes reliant on a certain skincare ritual, those essentials are there to support them throughout any stage for years to come.
ND: We should be focusing on building out this consistent ritual that is going to continue to support and improve the health of our skin.
ND: That’s the bottom line.
ND: And once your skin does become reliant on a product, for a brand to pull that from the shelves, that really leaves people stranded.
ND: My grandmother was mother of five children. I was the eldest grandchild and her house was an open door policy.
ND: Neighbors, cousins, second cousins, everyone was welcome.
ND: And it was a really beautiful but chaotic place to be.
DR: I can picture it.
ND: I was allowed in if I was very, very quiet.
ND: Twice a day, she would go into her bedroom, she would close the door and block out all of the noise.
ND: And she would sit down and she had all of these beautiful glass jars and bottles.
ND: That was her moment to herself. That was her ritual.
ND: I have this vivid memory of how beautiful she was in that moment when it was really just about and for herself.
ND: I’ve always wanted anyone who experiences lesse to experience that same ritual.
DR: You were destined to be a skincare guru.
ND: We do not utter the word routine in our world.
ND: We want to remove the pressure of feeling like you have to wake up and do X, Y, and Z.
ND: We want to put forward this philosophy of embracing a ritual that is mind, body, and skin.
DR: The mind skin connection is fascinating because we see it.
DR: Especially with skin disease like eczema or psoriasis. They flare when people get stressed.
DR: That emotional response to your skin, there’s a direct neurotransmitter link and we see it in real life.
DR: We have to address that too.
ND: That is such an important piece.
ND: The skincare world is highly saturated.
ND: In order to create your own space, you really need to define who you are by your own terms.
ND: For us, it’s about going deeper in what we do.
ND: Refining and focusing on greater sustainability, more innovation, and continuing to do what we do well now, but to an even higher standard.
ND: Committing to improvement and embracing what technology and innovation will present is what we’re focused on.
DR: Amazing. How about you?
DR: No one’s ever asked me that on this. Let’s turn the mic back to you.
DR: I do agree with you. Following your playbook, following your core, your tribe will follow.
DR: I have always taken a science first approach. I really do love the whole idea of how the skin works.
DR: There are ingredients that we’re learning about that are not so great, and that the industry has widely used because they’re cheap and stable.
DR: They can be hormonal disruptors.
DR: As a cancer doctor, I see more and more younger patients.
DR: We have to think about our environment.
DR: You grew up in Australia. I grew up in New York. Completely different environments, but they both affect you.
DR: How we interact with that environment, how we can protect ourselves, is really important.
ND: Absolutely.
ND: Focusing on how we can support our skin and adapting to its environment is so crucial.
ND: We are unlocking more substantiating scientific research to show that there are so many natural ingredients that do this wonderfully.
ND: I’m very excited about what the next decade will bring in terms of the research, the published studies that will actually substantiate what Chinese medicine has thought.
DR: In a few years, you and I will be in the rainforest looking for it.
ND: We will. Yeah. We will.
ND: We grow and wild harvest some of our ingredients in Canada.
DR: So cool.
ND: We even have a very small facility there that’s 100 percent solar powered, where we can extract on site.
ND: So I do actually spend time in the forest looking at mushrooms.
DR: All right. So we’re going to play a little game called Keep or Cancel. Are you ready?
ND: I’m ready. I love this.
DR: Okay. So basically, I’ll name some things and you tell me whether you would keep it or cancel it. And why.
DR: Skin cycling.
ND: Keep and then cancel.
DR: Oh, nice.
ND: Yes. While you are focused on restoring your skin barrier, maybe you have been using too many actives. We want to give our skin time to recover.
ND: But the ultimate goal should be a daily ritual that we can sustain that won’t require that time for recovery.
DR: Love that. Nice.
DR: Lymphatic drainage massages.
ND: Keep.
ND: Amazing for our detox pathways. Fantastic for promoting circulation, which we know encourages healing, and is so imperative to regenerating damaged skin cells.
DR: I always say just do it with clean hands.
DR: I’ve seen so many people try to lymphatic massage their face with dirty hands and they end up getting like a stye.
ND: Oh, my goodness.
DR: That’s a good warning for everyone.
DR: I do love lymphatic massages as well.
DR: I love a full body lymphatic massage that ends with a facial lymphatic massage. That’s heaven to me.
DR: What about ice facials and cold plunges? We see that all over social.
ND: I have a longer response. Keep, but don’t overindulge.
DR: Yeah.
ND: Fantastic for dealing with inflammation.
ND: But we don’t want to be over treating our skin with cryotherapy, for instance, because that can impair the skin barrier.
ND: And then also when it comes to a full body cold plunge, I think it’s wise, especially if you are a woman, to speak to a doctor, just because it can have hormonal effects.
DR: Less is more, right?
ND: There we go. That’s a theme.
DR: What about LED masks?
ND: Absolutely keep.
ND: LED masks, amazing research behind them.
ND: So fantastic for accelerating collagen synthesis, which will help to improve the quality and appearance of your skin.
ND: And again, promoting resilience, which is key.
DR: SPF re application.
ND: All right. Now we’re getting deep.
DR: We all know how I feel about sunscreen.
DR: Look, the more sunscreen, the better.
ND: I believe it’s imperative that you’re actually using some form of sun cream.
DR: You’re killing my spirit animal.
ND: Same mind.
DR: This next one is a layup. Mushroom skincare.
ND: Obviously we’re keeping the mushrooms.
ND: Mushrooms have amazing adaptogenic properties. So incredible for the skin barrier.
ND: Tremendous hydrating properties as well.
ND: We use tremella mushroom, also known as snow mushroom or the beauty mushroom, scientifically proven to be 400 times more hydrating than hyaluronic acid.
ND: We use turkey tail mushroom. Wonderful for the skin barrier and also helps to treat and prevent hyperpigmentation.
ND: I’m an absolute mushroom fanatic. I’m very excited about using more mushrooms in our future formulas.
DR: Do we eat mushrooms as well?
ND: Big fan of mushrooms all around.
DR: I know what we’re having for dinner.
DR: Algae based skincare.
ND: Keep.
ND: Wonderful to include algae. Great hydrating properties and packed full of antioxidants.
ND: We use red microalgae in our formulas, and we also use standard algae for its anti inflammatory and hydrating properties.
DR: Cool. How do you feel about gua sha?
ND: Keep.
ND: Wonderful for encouraging circulation, but you have to practice it gently.
ND: Most people don’t know how to gua sha correctly.
DR: People are truly scraping their skin. I cringe when I see it.
ND: I’ve done a few gua sha master classes in my time.
DR: Oh, wow.
ND: It’s so much about finding an expert to help guide you on that before you begin to practice any form of gua sha.
DR: Good to know. I see a YouTube video maybe in the future.
ND: Maybe.
DR: Face taping.
ND: Cancel.
ND: It does nothing. You’re not ridding yourself of fine lines. In fact, you’re just sensitizing your skin.
DR: Okay. Anthony, we’re turning the mic back to you.
DR: And less is more, we keep coming back to that. I love that.
DR: I’m a big peptide fan because they do things to the skin. They’re messengers. They promote an action.
DR: My peptide blocks a certain receptor in the skin that causes inflammation. So for me, peptides all the way.
DR: Lasers or LED therapy?
DR: Lasers all day long. They’re my friend.
DR: Lasers are specific wavelengths of light that can interact with chromophores in our skin.
DR: They are so specific and have such high energy that you can zap blood vessels or make the skin turn over and build new collagen.
DR: But only in expert hands.
ND: Yes, of course. You can do a lot of damage with lasers. You really should see an expert.
DR: A dermatologist.
DR: Barrier repair or exfoliation?
DR: Barrier repair.
DR: We have to let our skin do what it does best, which is protect us.
DR: If you improve the barrier, if you improve the epidermis, everything works so much better.
DR: You can focus with intention. You’re not just trying to get through steps. You let the products do what they are supposed to do.
DR: Three step it.
DR: Ceramide essence or serum?
ND: Don’t make me choose. It’s like choosing a favorite child.
ND: I love essences. They’re really impactful.
ND: Our lactic acid essence has encapsulated lactic acid in it. So it’s gentle, but it can help your skin turn over a little bit faster. It’s great for hyperpigmentation.
ND: But the serum is our hero product. It’s packed with active ingredients and it’s lightweight and moisturizing, so you can use it every day.
ND: So I can’t choose. I’m sorry.
ND: I plead the fifth.
DR: Ingredient lists or results?
ND: The results are because of the ingredient list and how well those ingredients work together.
ND: The results come from a curated, refined, and purposeful ingredient list.
DR: Absolutely. And also the concentration and the balance.
DR: Like we said, you can have 100 actives, but if they’re all at 0.001 percent, they’re not doing anything.
ND: Exactly. They’re fillers and for marketing purposes.
ND: It’s the same with extensive skincare routines. You get to diminishing returns.
DR: I’m a big fan of prevention, but correct if needed.
DR: When people come in to correct something, that’s also an opportunity to look at what they can prevent in the future.
DR: And start to build a ritual or a protocol that will help them ensure their skin is best moving forward.
ND: Oh, my gosh, you’re hired.
DR: I tell my patients that every day.
DR: This has been an amazing episode.
DR: You’re so calming. And I love your intention behind the lesson behind everything that you’ve been doing.
DR: Our show is called Give Good Face. So what does that mean to you?
DR: To give good face, how do you show it?
ND: I’d love to speak more to how we show that through lesse.
ND: How do we give good face?
ND: It’s about creating things with intention for results and in support of the long term health and function and integrity of the skin.
ND: And that is so important.
ND: We layer in so many different elements when it comes to lesse, from the experience to the formulas.
ND: You can give good face, no matter what environmental stressor might be thrown your way.
DR: You’re amazing. I love it.
ND: Thank you. You’re amazing.
DR: Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and join us as we explore beauty, confidence, and the art of showing up like only Give Good Face can.
DR: Be sure to stay connected. Follow me at Dr. Anthony Rossi for updates, guest highlights, and bonus content.
Minimalist Beauty, Integrity in Ingredients & Skin Health with Neada Deters
On This Week's Episode:
What if doing less for your skin actually gave you better results?
Dr Rossi sits down with Neada Deters, founder of LESSE and former beauty editor, to unpack why modern skincare routines have become overcomplicated and, in many cases, damaging.
Together, they break down how active overload weakens the skin barrier, why formulation integrity matters more than buzzworthy ingredients, and how the beauty industry benefits from keeping routines complex. They also dive into the Australian sunscreen scandal and what it exposes about global manufacturing standards.
This conversation is about skin integrity, long term results, and why minimalist routines often outperform 10 to 12 step regimens.
Guest Bio:
Neada Deters is the founder and CEO of LESSE, a minimalist skincare brand rooted in ingredient transparency, formulation integrity, and long term skin health. Originally from Sydney, Australia, Neada spent over a decade working as a beauty editor, where she tested countless products and interviewed leading experts across the industry. That experience left her questioning the idea that more products and more actives lead to better skin.
After struggling personally with cystic acne, sensitivity, and hyperpigmentation, Neada began stripping her routine back and focusing on fewer, higher-quality formulas. When she could not find products that met her standards, she decided to create them herself. She founded LESSE in 2018 with the goal of developing botanically driven, clinically informed formulas that support the skin barrier rather than overwhelm it.
Now based in New York, Neada leads LESSE as an independent, female-founded brand known for its thoughtful sourcing, sustainable practices, and intentional approach to skincare. Her philosophy centers on doing less, but doing it better, and helping people build routines that prioritize skin integrity, clarity, and consistency over trends.
Episode Transcript:
DR: I really struggled with my skin, just frustration at my skin, not showing up in the way that I wanted it to.
DR: Everyone talks about more, more steps, more actives, but what if better skin actually comes from less?
DR: Can minimalism coexist with results?
DR: Neada Deters, founder of lesse, a certified organic skincare brand rooted in ritual, sustainability, and simplicity.
ND: I’m an absolute mushroom fanatic, and I’m very excited about using more mushrooms in our future formulas, actually.
ND: Many people would feel super dumb.
ND: Official formulas. There are so many brands that grow so many actives into a compound and we sort of know there’s diminishing returns.
ND: Quick band aid results don’t translate into any kind of sustainable transformation.
DR: Neada, I’m so happy to have you on the show today.
DR: When I first met you, I feel like I resonated with your personality and your ethos about skincare, also life.
DR: So pleasure to have you on. Thank you for coming.
ND: Thank you so much for having me. I absolutely felt the same.
DR: Oh, awesome.
ND: I moved to New York and I am now a writer and an editor and I am focused on beauty.
ND: So I’m speaking to skincare experts from around the world. I am testing and reviewing products.
ND: I am analyzing ingredient lists and doing deep research into ingredients, their benefits and how they’re derived and really how they interact with the skin.
ND: Well over a decade, I really struggled with my skin.
ND: So I had cystic acne, hyperpigmentation, and very sensitive skin, which I know we both have sensitive skin.
DR: We’re bonded.
ND: Yeah. We are bonded by that.
ND: And so I was looking at these samples that I was being sent because as an editor, you really do try it all.
ND: I was analyzing these for review for our readers, but also really trying to find a solution for my own skincare woes.
ND: I really struggled to find anything that was effective in treating the all too common issues that I was dealing with and that used really high quality natural ingredients.
ND: And I recognize that there was, at least in my eyes, a lack of innovation through the use of natural ingredients.
ND: And yet we have this incredible category known as active botanicals.
DR: Oh, yeah.
ND: So that is where you really see the synthesis of science and nature come together.
ND: After quite a number of years of really thinking this through and starting to dream up these formulas that I knew would be so supportive of my skin and its needs, I finally realized that if I wanted these solutions, I was going to have to create them myself.
ND: And so I retired from editorial.
ND: Of course, jumped on a plane straight to LA, cut away from the noise of New York for a bit to begin formulating what is now lesse.
DR: Amazing. That’s a brilliant story. I love that.
DR: And I love how you’re taking what you learned in childhood and then also applying it to issues you had as an adult.
DR: Skin cancer capital of the world. And they’ve really done a great job about educating kids and parents about protecting themselves from the sun.
DR: I mean, I think education is everything when it comes to skincare and sun protection.
ND: Absolutely. I mean, I think for some people, it almost takes a level of indoctrination.
ND: But truly it is meaningful education that you get from such a young age.
ND: And so you and I have talked about this before, but my childhood, I was in a long sleeve rash guard, thick zinc layer all over my face, a hat with a flap at the back, tent on the beach, that kind of level of protection.
ND: I am grateful for it. And it was definitely informative in terms of me really thinking about my skin as a really central part of my health.
ND: So often I think people disregard how interconnected and how important skin is when it comes to our health and well being.
ND: How our skin is both a reflection of and kind of a portal to our health and systems in our body.
ND: So being from Australia, you learn that from a very young age.
DR: That’s amazing.
DR: Skin cancer. I actually had a basal cell, which is the most common type of skin cancer.
DR: And when you realize that you really can intervene and protect yourself, it’s really important.
DR: And I just wish that message got out to more and more Americans.
ND: Completely. And it’s so important to protect your skin from a very young age, but throughout your entire life.
ND: My husband knows how rigorous I am in terms of using nutrient dense and multi beneficial formulas that take care of the complexity for you.
ND: Because when you are overlayering, that can actually compromise your skin barrier.
ND: So it’s really about the quality of the formulas that you’re using.
ND: We really live and die by that philosophy at lesse.
ND: Of course, the name lesse derives from the philosophy of less is more.
ND: So that’s really central to what we do and the way we think about skincare.
DR: And how do you protect it as a brand philosophy?
DR: Because I think it’s so easy for us to just keep expanding.
DR: But you really created this nice curated formulation.
ND: I love this question.
ND: I have to agree. When I tried all of your products, the formulas are so elegant.
ND: Of course, with my curious mind, I had to look at the ingredient lists and really loved each and every one of them.
DR: Same about you. Thank you.
ND: In terms of integrity, this is something that is so important to us.
ND: It’s kind of the foundation of the way that we think about everything that we do at lesse.
ND: And we think about it both biologically and we also think about it philosophically.
ND: When we are thinking about skin integrity biologically, we’re obviously thinking about how can we support the function of the skin.
ND: How can we provide exceptional microbiome supportive formulas that will continue to build resilience and allow the skin to flourish long term.
ND: Versus focusing on quick band aid results that don’t necessarily translate into any kind of sustainable transformation.
ND: And I think that is a myth that we need to hit on the head as we start to become more aware that you’re building a sustainable skincare regimen and brand.
DR: Thank you.
DR: I do think that the industry is so often focused on trends.
ND: Oh, for sure.
DR: Trending ingredients. Social media doesn’t help.
ND: Exactly. We hear about one ingredient, one kind of system or one kind of form of application.
ND: Anyway, we need to move beyond trends.
DR: Yeah.
ND: And that’s so important.
ND: It’s focusing on the real science behind what skin requires to function well, to heal quickly.
ND: That’s the direction in which we’re moving as an industry and hopefully as a society when we think about skin.
ND: We can give as much of a nudge as possible, but people are constantly looking for the change that they want to see.
ND: As someone who struggled with my skin for so long, and still I’m so careful about my skin because I know how reactive it can be.
ND: How easily I can step one foot wrong and I’ll be struggling with my skin again.
ND: So it’s all about consistency.
DR: How do you talk about sustainability with consumers from a brand perspective without it feeling too marketing or too gimmicky or just a checkbox?
ND: I think sustainability is interesting because sustainability is such a marketing term.
ND: So I think this is a great topic to touch upon.
ND: I believe in showing through action, ensuring that what you say you do, you’re putting into practice before you even begin to speak to it.
ND: We have all of these sustainable practices that we adhere to at lesse, but I think we could talk about it so much more than we do.
ND: Often we’re just so busy with the actual act of ensuring that we are successful in reaching those standards day after day.
ND: For us, it’s about committing to the evolution and the potential of what sustainable innovation lies ahead.
ND: People often see sustainability as an endpoint.
ND: We have an idea of what is sustainable today in this context, but ultimately we hope that sustainability will progress.
ND: We’ll see more and more sustainable solutions moving forward.
ND: And being a brand, especially a brand that is putting products out into the world, if we can commit to embracing more sustainable solutions as they become available, that matters.
DR: You know what was interesting in Australia, there was this whole big scandal.
DR: We’re going to spill the tea a little bit now.
ND: Yeah. Let’s go.
DR: About this whole sunscreen scandal.
DR: All these different brands were really just manufactured by the same formula manufacturer.
DR: They were all the same formula or the base formula, and it didn’t really live up to the SPF and UVA protection that it said it did.
DR: That’s really disappointing because people rely on these as medical OTC products, OTC drugs, and they need to protect their skin.
DR: What happened there?
DR: Was it a bad batch? A bad manufacturer? Less integrity in the skincare space?
ND: I would love to speak more to a broader issue in the industry.
ND: People are pushing and rushing.
ND: They are not slowing down in order to ensure that the product is safer and is made with more integrity.
ND: And I think that this applies to sunscreen and it applies across the board to all skincare products.
ND: What you apply to your skin, is there anything more intimate and personal than your skincare practice?
ND: It is this moment, morning and night, where you reconnect with yourself, where you’re truly showing deep care, not just for your skin, but for yourself.
DR: You know, I worked in different sub Saharan African countries where they’re putting compounds on that have high levels of mercury to lighten the skin.
DR: That gets absorbed and that’s scary.
DR: And unfortunately, like you said, there’s this push and rush and anxiety about putting out more and more SKUs.
DR: And you lose the integrity of the formulas and the rigorous testing.
DR: So kudos to you. You’re very calming. I love it.
ND: Thank you.
ND: It’s all about supporting our skin to that place where we really are seeing the results and then ensuring that we are keeping up the good work to sustain that level.
ND: And also, of course, we want to see compounding benefits over time.
DR: You say it so eloquently.
DR: Like you said, the fads are just endless.
DR: And now people are making skincare at home and all sorts of things.
DR: Please don’t buy skincare from a farmer’s market.
ND: No.
DR: What do you think the new wave of skincare or the future of skincare is?
DR: Is it going to be science based? Is it going to be slow beauty? Is it a combination of both?
ND: I think you hit it on the head. It’s a combination of both.
ND: Taking your time goes hand in glove with a more scientific approach.
ND: You can be truly beneficial without overwhelming the skin.
ND: I hope that slow becomes viewed as more of an intentional approach.
DR: I think you’re right.
DR: So many people ask me, you should come out with these SKUs and those SKUs.
DR: And I’m like, it’s not intentional. If it’s not intentional for me, I don’t want to do it.
DR: There’s a lot of big brands who just constantly roll out SKUs and then discontinue old ones.
DR: People are amazed that we only use very few things, and you can still achieve great results.
ND: Absolutely agree with that.
ND: And to your point about brands launching a bunch of products and then discontinuing them, it’s so important that once someone becomes reliant on a certain skincare ritual, those essentials are there to support them throughout any stage for years to come.
ND: We should be focusing on building out this consistent ritual that is going to continue to support and improve the health of our skin.
ND: That’s the bottom line.
ND: And once your skin does become reliant on a product, for a brand to pull that from the shelves, that really leaves people stranded.
ND: My grandmother was mother of five children. I was the eldest grandchild and her house was an open door policy.
ND: Neighbors, cousins, second cousins, everyone was welcome.
ND: And it was a really beautiful but chaotic place to be.
DR: I can picture it.
ND: I was allowed in if I was very, very quiet.
ND: Twice a day, she would go into her bedroom, she would close the door and block out all of the noise.
ND: And she would sit down and she had all of these beautiful glass jars and bottles.
ND: That was her moment to herself. That was her ritual.
ND: I have this vivid memory of how beautiful she was in that moment when it was really just about and for herself.
ND: I’ve always wanted anyone who experiences lesse to experience that same ritual.
DR: You were destined to be a skincare guru.
ND: We do not utter the word routine in our world.
ND: We want to remove the pressure of feeling like you have to wake up and do X, Y, and Z.
ND: We want to put forward this philosophy of embracing a ritual that is mind, body, and skin.
DR: The mind skin connection is fascinating because we see it.
DR: Especially with skin disease like eczema or psoriasis. They flare when people get stressed.
DR: That emotional response to your skin, there’s a direct neurotransmitter link and we see it in real life.
DR: We have to address that too.
ND: That is such an important piece.
ND: The skincare world is highly saturated.
ND: In order to create your own space, you really need to define who you are by your own terms.
ND: For us, it’s about going deeper in what we do.
ND: Refining and focusing on greater sustainability, more innovation, and continuing to do what we do well now, but to an even higher standard.
ND: Committing to improvement and embracing what technology and innovation will present is what we’re focused on.
DR: Amazing. How about you?
DR: No one’s ever asked me that on this. Let’s turn the mic back to you.
DR: I do agree with you. Following your playbook, following your core, your tribe will follow.
DR: I have always taken a science first approach. I really do love the whole idea of how the skin works.
DR: There are ingredients that we’re learning about that are not so great, and that the industry has widely used because they’re cheap and stable.
DR: They can be hormonal disruptors.
DR: As a cancer doctor, I see more and more younger patients.
DR: We have to think about our environment.
DR: You grew up in Australia. I grew up in New York. Completely different environments, but they both affect you.
DR: How we interact with that environment, how we can protect ourselves, is really important.
ND: Absolutely.
ND: Focusing on how we can support our skin and adapting to its environment is so crucial.
ND: We are unlocking more substantiating scientific research to show that there are so many natural ingredients that do this wonderfully.
ND: I’m very excited about what the next decade will bring in terms of the research, the published studies that will actually substantiate what Chinese medicine has thought.
DR: In a few years, you and I will be in the rainforest looking for it.
ND: We will. Yeah. We will.
ND: We grow and wild harvest some of our ingredients in Canada.
DR: So cool.
ND: We even have a very small facility there that’s 100 percent solar powered, where we can extract on site.
ND: So I do actually spend time in the forest looking at mushrooms.
DR: All right. So we’re going to play a little game called Keep or Cancel. Are you ready?
ND: I’m ready. I love this.
DR: Okay. So basically, I’ll name some things and you tell me whether you would keep it or cancel it. And why.
DR: Skin cycling.
ND: Keep and then cancel.
DR: Oh, nice.
ND: Yes. While you are focused on restoring your skin barrier, maybe you have been using too many actives. We want to give our skin time to recover.
ND: But the ultimate goal should be a daily ritual that we can sustain that won’t require that time for recovery.
DR: Love that. Nice.
DR: Lymphatic drainage massages.
ND: Keep.
ND: Amazing for our detox pathways. Fantastic for promoting circulation, which we know encourages healing, and is so imperative to regenerating damaged skin cells.
DR: I always say just do it with clean hands.
DR: I’ve seen so many people try to lymphatic massage their face with dirty hands and they end up getting like a stye.
ND: Oh, my goodness.
DR: That’s a good warning for everyone.
DR: I do love lymphatic massages as well.
DR: I love a full body lymphatic massage that ends with a facial lymphatic massage. That’s heaven to me.
DR: What about ice facials and cold plunges? We see that all over social.
ND: I have a longer response. Keep, but don’t overindulge.
DR: Yeah.
ND: Fantastic for dealing with inflammation.
ND: But we don’t want to be over treating our skin with cryotherapy, for instance, because that can impair the skin barrier.
ND: And then also when it comes to a full body cold plunge, I think it’s wise, especially if you are a woman, to speak to a doctor, just because it can have hormonal effects.
DR: Less is more, right?
ND: There we go. That’s a theme.
DR: What about LED masks?
ND: Absolutely keep.
ND: LED masks, amazing research behind them.
ND: So fantastic for accelerating collagen synthesis, which will help to improve the quality and appearance of your skin.
ND: And again, promoting resilience, which is key.
DR: SPF re application.
ND: All right. Now we’re getting deep.
DR: We all know how I feel about sunscreen.
DR: Look, the more sunscreen, the better.
ND: I believe it’s imperative that you’re actually using some form of sun cream.
DR: You’re killing my spirit animal.
ND: Same mind.
DR: This next one is a layup. Mushroom skincare.
ND: Obviously we’re keeping the mushrooms.
ND: Mushrooms have amazing adaptogenic properties. So incredible for the skin barrier.
ND: Tremendous hydrating properties as well.
ND: We use tremella mushroom, also known as snow mushroom or the beauty mushroom, scientifically proven to be 400 times more hydrating than hyaluronic acid.
ND: We use turkey tail mushroom. Wonderful for the skin barrier and also helps to treat and prevent hyperpigmentation.
ND: I’m an absolute mushroom fanatic. I’m very excited about using more mushrooms in our future formulas.
DR: Do we eat mushrooms as well?
ND: Big fan of mushrooms all around.
DR: I know what we’re having for dinner.
DR: Algae based skincare.
ND: Keep.
ND: Wonderful to include algae. Great hydrating properties and packed full of antioxidants.
ND: We use red microalgae in our formulas, and we also use standard algae for its anti inflammatory and hydrating properties.
DR: Cool. How do you feel about gua sha?
ND: Keep.
ND: Wonderful for encouraging circulation, but you have to practice it gently.
ND: Most people don’t know how to gua sha correctly.
DR: People are truly scraping their skin. I cringe when I see it.
ND: I’ve done a few gua sha master classes in my time.
DR: Oh, wow.
ND: It’s so much about finding an expert to help guide you on that before you begin to practice any form of gua sha.
DR: Good to know. I see a YouTube video maybe in the future.
ND: Maybe.
DR: Face taping.
ND: Cancel.
ND: It does nothing. You’re not ridding yourself of fine lines. In fact, you’re just sensitizing your skin.
DR: Okay. Anthony, we’re turning the mic back to you.
DR: And less is more, we keep coming back to that. I love that.
DR: I’m a big peptide fan because they do things to the skin. They’re messengers. They promote an action.
DR: My peptide blocks a certain receptor in the skin that causes inflammation. So for me, peptides all the way.
DR: Lasers or LED therapy?
DR: Lasers all day long. They’re my friend.
DR: Lasers are specific wavelengths of light that can interact with chromophores in our skin.
DR: They are so specific and have such high energy that you can zap blood vessels or make the skin turn over and build new collagen.
DR: But only in expert hands.
ND: Yes, of course. You can do a lot of damage with lasers. You really should see an expert.
DR: A dermatologist.
DR: Barrier repair or exfoliation?
DR: Barrier repair.
DR: We have to let our skin do what it does best, which is protect us.
DR: If you improve the barrier, if you improve the epidermis, everything works so much better.
DR: You can focus with intention. You’re not just trying to get through steps. You let the products do what they are supposed to do.
DR: Three step it.
DR: Ceramide essence or serum?
ND: Don’t make me choose. It’s like choosing a favorite child.
ND: I love essences. They’re really impactful.
ND: Our lactic acid essence has encapsulated lactic acid in it. So it’s gentle, but it can help your skin turn over a little bit faster. It’s great for hyperpigmentation.
ND: But the serum is our hero product. It’s packed with active ingredients and it’s lightweight and moisturizing, so you can use it every day.
ND: So I can’t choose. I’m sorry.
ND: I plead the fifth.
DR: Ingredient lists or results?
ND: The results are because of the ingredient list and how well those ingredients work together.
ND: The results come from a curated, refined, and purposeful ingredient list.
DR: Absolutely. And also the concentration and the balance.
DR: Like we said, you can have 100 actives, but if they’re all at 0.001 percent, they’re not doing anything.
ND: Exactly. They’re fillers and for marketing purposes.
ND: It’s the same with extensive skincare routines. You get to diminishing returns.
DR: I’m a big fan of prevention, but correct if needed.
DR: When people come in to correct something, that’s also an opportunity to look at what they can prevent in the future.
DR: And start to build a ritual or a protocol that will help them ensure their skin is best moving forward.
ND: Oh, my gosh, you’re hired.
DR: I tell my patients that every day.
DR: This has been an amazing episode.
DR: You’re so calming. And I love your intention behind the lesson behind everything that you’ve been doing.
DR: Our show is called Give Good Face. So what does that mean to you?
DR: To give good face, how do you show it?
ND: I’d love to speak more to how we show that through lesse.
ND: How do we give good face?
ND: It’s about creating things with intention for results and in support of the long term health and function and integrity of the skin.
ND: And that is so important.
ND: We layer in so many different elements when it comes to lesse, from the experience to the formulas.
ND: You can give good face, no matter what environmental stressor might be thrown your way.
DR: You’re amazing. I love it.
ND: Thank you. You’re amazing.
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