Facial Massage, Lymphatic Drainage & Anti-Aging Secrets with Ian Michael Crumm
Posted posted on December 01, 2025
On This Week's Episode:
Ever wonder what it really takes to get healthy, glowing skin? NYC master esthetician Ian Michael Crum, co-host of the Beauty Curious podcast, joins Dr. Rossi to reveal the professional skincare tips and treatments that actually work. From facials and lymphatic drainage to building a skincare routine that delivers visible results, Ian shares insider advice on how to achieve radiant, long-term skin health.
He also debunks common beauty myths — like whether you can use too much hyaluronic acid or if Vitamin C serums are really worth the hype. Plus, Ian opens up about his role as the 2025 Get Naked Campaign spokesperson for the Melanoma Research Foundation, where he’s raising awareness for melanoma prevention and breaking the stigma around regular skin checks.
Whether you’re a skincare lover, beauty professional, or just chasing that glow, this episode delivers the science, strategy, and skin wisdom you actually need.
Guest Bio:
Ian Michael Crumm, a licensed esthetician and beauty expert, has devoted his career to the pursuit of skincare excellence. From a young age, Ian was fascinated by makeup, and his passion only grew stronger as he delved into skincare during his teenage years. As a content creator, Ian’s dedication to the beauty world helped him carve out a niche as a trusted authority in the space.
With a client list that includes movie producers and country music artists, Ian’s impact on the industry is undeniable. Additionally, his advocacy for sun safety and skin cancer awareness has earned him a spot on the committee for The Skin Cancer Foundation’s Champions for Change Gala. Embodying his catchphrase “making sun safety sexy,” Ian’s mission is to promote healthy skincare habits while keeping beauty at the forefront.
Episode Transcript:
DR: What's an overhyped ingredient that you see people gravitating towards?
IMC: I like hyluronic acid, but I do think that it's just in everything. And there's a lot of people that feel like they need a dedicated serum. I'm more concerned with someone getting that sunscreen on their face.
IMC: So many people will be like, I'm getting married next week. What can I do? I'm like, absolutely nothing.
DR: Give me your take on guasha. Should people be doing it at home?
IMC: I have different guasha style tools that I'll use sometimes in facials.
DR: Can you help shape someone's face with lymphatic massage, this tension that we put…?
IMC: I think if someone drank a lot, had a lot of salt, they're holding a lot of lymph fluid in their face, you can see it pretty much instantly after you started working on it for a few minutes.
DR: What do you think of Kim Kay's new liposuction garment for your face?
IMC: I mean, it's compression, obviously, it's had surgery, it's great, but...
DR: I'm Dr. Anthony Rossi, and you're listening to Give Good Face.
DR: Today, I am most fortunate to be with Ian Michael Crum, a master esthetician in New York City. He's also the co-host of a podcast Beauty Curious that you can check out, as well as the 2025 MRF, that's the Melanoma Research Foundation, Get Naked Campaign. So he has a lot going on and he's going to spend time with us and talk about everything from skin tips to finding skin cancer and everything in between.
IMC: Totally. I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having me.
DR: Yeah, thanks, Ian. So we've known each other, you know, for a little bit now and we see each other at all the same events. And I'm really curious to see how your career has progressed and where you came from, how you've evolved and, you know, I know you have a passion for skin. So how did you translate that into a career?
IMC: Totally. So I've been into beauty since I was little. My mother is very cool. She's had like these long design nails. She always gets these custom nails all the time. She's getting a good picture right now. You know, she goes to get her hair dyed. And so when I was little, she let me, I had an affinity for her doing her nails and hair and she started taking me to the salon. She'd let me experiment with getting my hair colored or I'd get like pedicures while she's getting her nails done. So I was always into beauty as like overall.
IMC: And in high school, I had mild acne, nothing crazy, but I had some mild acne. And I had these bumps around my eye that at the time I had no clue what it was. I went to the dermatologist, went through that process. I just kind of had this affinity.
IMC: In some point I subscribed to Dermatology Times and my mom was like, what did you, what did you order? Because I had a debit card and I'm like, uh-huh.
DR: You had the New Beauty magazine, Dermatology Times…
IMC: Yeah. I was always buying New Beauty, which I didn't realize, I guess it had newly come out around that time when I was in high school, but I would always buy that, read that. And so in high school, I started taking like AP Calc, advanced science classes. I dabbled with the thought of going pre-med.
DR: Oh, nice.
IMC: And in a conversation with my great aunt, my grandfather's sister, sort of just realized, I don't think I want to be a doctor, but the idea was fun in the moment. And I was kind of preparing. And I've always liked math and science classes anyway. So didn't end up doing it.
IMC: But in my brain I thought, oh, maybe I'll go premed, become a, become a plastic or a derm because I was like that whole process with my derm at the time.
IMC: Went to school for marketing communications, didn't take that path. But as I established, I've always been into beauty. And when I went to school, I at the time, I actually thought I wanted to produce fashion shows for a living. So I got in this whole path of like volunteering for event planners and in the whole like fashion marketing world.
IMC: I technically started blogging in high school, but I started my blog, my freshman year of college, and I just kept doing that. So for many years, I was a lifestyle fashion blogger.
IMC: I used to do stuff with like Details Magazine whenever existed, RIP, GQ, Refinery29, etc. And over the years I would always still talk about beauty. So kind of kept going down that path.
IMC: A lot of cool things started happening in the blog space. Obviously, over the years, Instagram grew and grew and grew, just overall. Like, I started out on WordPress, so I used to just blog every day. And after so many years of blogging, I was like, this is fun, but I started getting tired of always being on my phone. I sort of hit this lull.
IMC: I had shifted from doing mostly fashion content to talking a lot about beauty and was getting questions online about skincare and I would post when I'd go get facials or any sort of other treatment and I'd have a lot more dialogue around that. Fashion's great, but I was getting a lot of like, you look great or I love your outfit or a cute shirt, you know, that sort of stuff. And I was like, okay, I'm not really feeling fulfilled here.
IMC: So decided to do the aesthetics path. And that was really just for my personal kind of confidence in people asking questions. So I felt like I would always been well read, but I started to second guess like, oh, I hope I'm recommending the right product of these people that are asking these questions.
IMC: But then through that process, I'm like, I really do like massaging. One of my top love language is touch. And I don't know, there's just something making someone feel really relaxed and beautiful in a treatment table. So I've kind of just honed in and focused on that the past like almost five years of, okay, I'm going to do facials, aesthetics, but it's complemented now with all my digital past with, well, digital past and present in terms of content creation.
IMC: And my platforms have now shifted from what used to be like fashion lifestyle blogger to beauty blogger, esthetician, to now definitely like skin health advocate. And as you mentioned, I talk a lot about sun safety, skin cancer prevention, awareness. So yeah, that's the fast version of the story. There was a lot of things in between.
DR: That was the fast version.
IMC: That was the fast version. There was a lot of pivots and crazy things that happened in the middle. I mean, that's real. Like I said, I have just beauty in general, not just skin, you know, like always changing my hairstyle, playing with makeup. She bought me one of those, like, mannequin heads that cosmetology students use, and I would, like, play and put makeup on it. And so I've just—anything beauty related, I was always interested in some sense.
DR: Cool. So I grew up with hairdressers. My parents were both hairdressers. They have a salon. So I always grew up in the salon. And I do remember my dad from a very early age, making me go to…
DR: My father actually was a big proponent of that, which I think is interesting, you know, in that sense. It was super relaxing, not that I needed to relax because I was basically in high school and, like, you know, the world is not that stressful.
DR: For me, it wasn't. I think in high school, I had like two breakdowns in high school because I put too much on my plate and then you learn how to manage it.
IMC: Yeah, totally.
DR: But they were definitely—it was relaxing. It was also a source of information because the aesthetician was super knowledgeable about like what I was putting on my skin, you know, making sure that I had a good diet in relation to my skin. So it was a really source of information.
DR: So tell us how you integrate your work with like what I do, dermatology. And I'm sure you know there's a super overlap and like you see patients all the time. I mean, I feel like at times derms and estheticians butt heads or at least on the internet. Tell me.
IMC: Yeah. I know. There's a lot of that.
DR: What's the, what's the beef?
IMC: Yeah. I think maybe just approach to, yeah, how to treat the skin or whether they think certain modalities will work. Okay.
IMC: I feel like because I have always, you know, I thought I might want to go and be a derm. Like, I've always very much appreciated medicine. So I think there's areas in aesthetics that are more holistic in a sense and don't want to engage with, you know, anything sort of related to pharmaceutical.
IMC: I feel like everything I do is like a blend, you know? I like Eastern practices, Western practices. I'm kind of like more is more of like anything to make me feel good, relax, monitor my health.
IMC: You partner with the derm. I'm not here diagnosing disease. I'm not a medical—yeah. I'm not a doctor. So I think derms are very necessary.
IMC: In my facials, in my intake form, actually, I, I'm trying to think if I've ever seen this, but I ask people if they've had skin checks. And the last time they've been to derms, and I make it a big part of, you know, me talking about sun safety, I make it a big part of what I try to push on clients and remind them, okay, beyond, even if you've been wearing sunscreen every day, if you haven't had a skin check, like, I really need you to go see a derm. And I refer them or help, like, link them in with my different dermatologist friends.
DR: That's amazing.
IMC: I think kind of started using this new tagline: beauty starts with your health.
DR: I like that. You heard it here.
IMC: You have to, you know, know what's going on and whatnot. So in terms of how an aesthetician—myself or another aesthetician—working with derms, I think comboing what you guys can do in terms of advanced lasers, deeper peels, obviously just full-on skin checks.
IMC: And then, I mean, estheticians, we're the ones that are in there touching the face for potentially a full hour. And I feel like that's the big difference I try to explain to clients or just people on the internet is derms should be your first start. You should be getting like a full check. Make sure everything's healthy, good. You can get guidance from them too.
IMC: And then for your like monthly maintenance, like unless you're dealing with a very intense skin issue and you need to go on some sort of oral medication, you know, go to your esthetician for your monthly maintenance and whatnot. But I definitely think derms and estheticians should be working hand in hand.
DR: Yeah, same. I mean, I love my patients that go see estheticians on the regular because they're getting extractions. They're really maintaining, like, their skin health in the fact that they're becoming really conscious about what they put on their skin and how they protect the barrier.
DR: Also, the lymphatic drainage, I think, is super important just for overall puffiness and such. And, you know, the engagement, I think, is helpful. Because if I put someone on isotretinoin or Accutane, they're becoming super dry, you know, they have to really be mindful about sun exposure and also just keeping the barrier protected. So they're seeing an aesthetician every month. That's huge.
IMC: That's awesome.
DR: I think, too, it's skincare routines. While being in the space, I test a good amount of products, but I would never recommend anyone test as much as I test.
IMC: Yeah.
DR: You know, and I try to get people—stick to your routine. It is a living organ. You know, it's going to shift with the climate and just, you know, a ton of factors, but you should be sticking with pretty much the same set of products for a good chunk of time, and you can, like, rotate things in and out.
DR: But I think people that are able to go see their…in there kind of get these like micro refinements on a month-to-month basis, like, oh, actually that product's not working. Like, let's swap it out, you know, which are things that you don't think in real time.
DR: That's a great point, Ian, because they're seeing you like pretty monthly, right, almost every month. How long do you ask them to actually try their skincare? Because I always tell patients, like, you need to give it at least six weeks to work, especially if they're using a prescription, right, like, you know, that's going to go through a phase, right? Like, I might give them isotretinoin and they may break out. Isotretinoin's Accutane. So they may actually have a flare and they need to like work through that flare.
IMC: I normally say it's like four weeks minimum. Because I like to go off of say like, hey, your skin cycles 28 days, but it slows down as you age. You know, that sort of spiel and just educate around how the skin actually works.
IMC: So I say four weeks, but I like to also put guardrails there of obviously if you put a product on it and it starts burning, like you have to be aware of signs. If it's not meant to exfoliate your skin—like, why is your skin turning, right? You know, so don't just keep using a product because you're giving it the four weeks. You could have a reaction. So you've got to be aware of those things.
IMC: But yeah, I think four weeks is a good baseline, but I like six is better. I just find that people do get impatient. And also you can't like keep swapping things in and out. You know, if you want to see like if your skin improves, you can swap one product, use that new product. It's hard when people want to start just overhauling everything.
DR: I know. That's my biggest concern is like people are impatient, right? Especially with their skin because it's so visible. And like they really, you know, they get an emotional reaction if like their skin's not having a great day.
DR: Yeah and the idea of like skin cycling over and over and over again—they're never giving something a chance to really do its magic or do its work, you know. So I do think they have to like cut through the BS marketing claim. So I tell people to look for clinical trials or real clinical results and then give it a good go for a while.
IMC: I tell people often, I'm like, you'd probably be shocked at—and I've posted, you know, my skincare routines before—but probably shocked at how minimal my routine normally is. I think people just assume, you know, it's like 10 steps or whatnot, but you don't have time for 10 steps. Day to day, it's pretty crazy.
IMC: Exactly. Part of my step is my dog licks my whole face, you know, and so…
DR: Is that your pre-cleanse?
IMC: Yeah, exactly. That's like an enzymatic cleanse.
DR: I love it.
IMC: Yeah. He loves it. He…
(Now we get back into the “overhyped ingredient / gua sha / lymphatic / Kim K” section in full context; I’ll keep tagging consistently.)
DR: …gravitating towards.
IMC: I like hyluronic acid, but I do think that it's just in everything and people, there's a lot of people that feel like they need a dedicated serum when, like, in their routine, which it's fine. I don't think that's going to change your face.
IMC: I think if you're going to an event and you want to layer on the hyluronic or, you know, hydration and really plump up the skin… But I'm more concerned with someone getting that sunscreen on their face and using an antioxidant, and I find, like, people are using hyaluronic acid, moisturizer, sometimes sunscreen, and they don't have an antioxidant in there.
IMC: So I'm like, market this a little less and market getting things that are actually kind of doing a bit more.
DR: For your skin health, yeah.
IMC: But there's a lot of overhyped. Yeah, there's a lot of…
IMC: I do like hyaluronic acid.
DR: Yeah, of course. I'm saying I think the general perception is it also is going to like potentially transform someone's face, and it's going to hydrate it. Yeah, for sure. It's a great hydrator. But, yeah, I see what you mean. What about you?
IMC: Yeah.
DR: I honestly, I think people know this already because I always say this on— I think vitamin C is way overhyped. I love antioxidants. I just think there's so many good antioxidants. It doesn't have to be vitamin C. It can be any antioxidant.
DR: Yeah, I'm a huge proponent of antioxidants. The vitamin C story has evolved over time and I think so many brands have just like automatically included it because they feel like they have to. Yeah. And there's so much market awareness about it.
DR: Does it actually help? I've seen a lot of people get irritated like you said and they just will keep pushing through with it. And I'm like, no, stop. It's a weak acid. It's actually irritating your skin. I think that's my hot take.
DR: Ingredients just going in cycles because of marketing. You know, hyaluronic acid, vitamin C, niacinamide. It's like had a really big market share the last few years.
IMC: I slather niacinamide. I take nicotinamide. I'm all about like the internal. So, yeah, I do love an antioxidant.
DR: I also work at a cancer center. So I tell people, you know, if they're on chemotherapy and such, like you have to be very careful with ingesting antioxidants because it actually works against the chemo, right? You know, whenever you're seeing an esthetician or, you know, a derm or anyone, you really have to tell them what you're going through. So, like, that intake form is actually important.
DR: So people fill out the intake form. A lot of people breeze through it.
IMC: I know.
DR: And I really—give the details here.
IMC: Totally.
DR: And they tell—you ask what their routine is and they're like, cleanser, moisturizer, SPF. I'm like, I want to know what.
IMC: You want details. Like, get granular.
DR: Yeah. And you brought up a good point, like, prepping for an event. So many people will be like, I'm getting married next week. What can I do? And I'm like, absolutely nothing. Like, you're perfect, you know, for this next week.
DR: What is your go-to? Like, let's say you're prepping, because it's going to be fall soon. You're prepping for a wedding.
DR: Sure. When do you want people to come in and start? What do you like to do? Walk us through that.
IMC: I mean, I would definitely tell them to go to a derm like six months before and see if their derm's wanting them to do any sort of lasers more advanced because you have the time there. Maybe like two months before, I do like a low-grade peel, another month before like a low-grade peel.
IMC: I don't do—I do like very, very gentle peels that someone might flake a little bit. It's more just for the glow and a little extra exfoliation. But I will do that. And then, yeah, it's just hydration and a lot of lymphatic.
IMC: I know there's estheticians that have other specialties, but I always say it's all about my fingers.
DR: Yeah, yeah.
IMC: It's just a great tagline. As I mentioned earlier, you know, I didn't actually think that I was going to even really practice aesthetics at all, but I liked the facial massage element through the training. And I like being able for that to someone.
IMC: And the other day, actually, I was doing a set of editor facials and one of them asked me, don't your fingers get tired. And I'm like, it's actually the opposite because I've had so many years where I'm like gripping my cell phone and like always on a cell phone that it's this break from that.
IMC: And I say a facial massage is like ballet for my fingers. So they're like flipping and filling all around, and it's like just pretty much stretching my hands out. So a lot of lymphatic massage.
IMC: I like when people go get full body lymphatic massages, you know, I'm all about multiple specialists getting in there, especially if you have a big day for a wedding, you know, go see your derm, go get lymphatic, go to the sauna, sweat it out, get, you know, walk.
DR: Are you a fan of red light or blue light? I am. Give me the hot take on that.
IMC: Yeah, I love it. I mean, I sit in front of a red light panel, so…
DR: Yeah, LED is great.
IMC: Yeah. I use LED in basically every facial at some point throughout the process.
IMC: Little EMS, my fingers. I like using cryo globes, cryo-wands as well. I like to balance, obviously, doing drainage, stimulating the muscle with just a sensorial experience.
IMC: This is kind of a moment for the person to really just have their own moment and relax and get in the right head space because, you know, getting your hair and makeup done isn't normally like a relaxing experience. It could be really fun, but it's high energy.
IMC: And then if you're going straight into a carpet or a performance or something that's, you know, very stimulating, like it's nice to have this moment where you can kind of like dump all of your anxieties or just sort of pent-up feeling. So I…
IMC: …but I was like, wow, like it was like a rock. And we did like three facials, three days in a row. And I really focused on her masseter tension and just, I mean, all facial tension, but like her masseter. And she kept getting like locked jaw and she's having issues singing.
IMC: And she swore like after that little trio session that it was just like her—
DR: That's amazing.
IMC: Her, you know, singing was improved, not her actual voice, but just like how it feels to sing was improved because she was having issues and like just so much tension. So just helping address those things is really good too.
DR: Give me your take on guasha. Should people be doing it at home?
IMC: Yeah. I mean, there's a lot in Korea and it's all, you know, it's everywhere. Yeah, I think gua sha's great. Like I have different gua sha style tools that I'll use sometimes in facials as, you know, added massage.
IMC: I mean, a lot of it is my fingers, but there's a lot of great videos, tutorials online, and there's also a lot of skin influencers or people that, you know, acting like they're a doctor or a licensed professional, and they're like going like up and down and, you know, there's no actual reason for their method.
DR: And can you just show our audience, like, what direction you should be, like, draining?
IMC: Upward and outward. I mean, you have a lot of lymph nodes here.
DR: Yeah, for sure.
IMC: So you want to definitely start like under, like maybe I'll look this way. Like yeah. You definitely want to start here.
IMC: Actually was doing this with another doctor the other day. And it's kind of hard when you don't have any product on your face. So put a little serum there. Like basically just glide down along.
IMC: You want to go up. It's kind of like right behind your ear a little bit. Sometimes I do a little pulsing here and then sweep down the side. So you're really working with the lymphatic chain here and then draining patterns of the lymph nodes.
DR: Yeah. Our lymph nodes drain in a specific pattern. And I think it's actually sometimes hard to do it yourself. And that's why I think like going to see a, you know, an aesthetician who's really specialized in this is a game changer. It feels different.
IMC: Yeah. Yeah.
DR: So definitely like working all the lymph passages.
IMC: and then I like to do a lot—kind of get in and just work the muscles in a different way. And I think intra-oral massage feels amazing. Some people are really weirded out by it, but it can help really get a lot of tension.
DR: Have you ever had it?
IMC: Not. I brought my gloves.
DR: Really? Thank you.
IMC: I was like, have I ever had it? I was like, not at an aesthetician's office. No.
DR: But yeah, I mean, I think it's really important. Because even myself, like, when I'm examining someone, I'm feeling their masseters, like, I want to feel inside, outside, you know, there's a whole anatomy that's complex there, right?
DR: And, yeah, again, you know the anatomy. It's really important to understand that you have to go to someone that eats, lives, breathes, sleeps this, you know, this craft. Because it really is something that's really important.
DR: And you can get so many different degrees. Just like a doctor, you can get different degrees of a doctor. You can get different degrees of an aesthetician, right? Someone who's just about the product or someone who's really about the holistic approach.
IMC: Yeah. And there's other trainings. Certified with different peels or massage techniques. And yeah, that's the fun thing. You can just keep going and learning.
DR: Do you feel that, and I'm leading up to another question, which I think you'll like, but the idea of facial shaping—can you help shape someone's face with lymphatic massage and, you know, this tension that we put in?
IMC: Yeah, I think if someone drank a lot, they had a lot of salt, they're holding a lot of, like, lymph fluid in their face. You can see it pretty much instantly after you start working on it for a few minutes and let it start to slowly drain out of the face.
IMC: And I like to talk about, you know, any sort of muscle stimulation. It's like going to the gym.
DR: Can I ask you this? Have you been to a face gym?
IMC: I have been to a face gym.
DR: Yeah, I went once. It was interesting.
DR: Did you like it?
IMC: Yeah, they used a lot of like electric current to stimulate it.
DR: Yeah, like electric current, EMS, like, obviously like hand motion. So I think you can definitely get a sculpt from a facial.
IMC: Yeah.
DR: But it's just like working out, you know, if you work out for a couple months and then you stop working out and you never work out another day in your life, well, you're not going to keep your results.
DR: You know, it's like I think it's the same thing with any sort of lymphatic drainage, muscle stimulation on the face. It's the same as working out. It's the same because you're not going to have hydrated skin if you put moisturizer on once and then you stop using it.
IMC: Amen. Everything is a daily practice.
IMC: So, I mean, I've had some—I've other esthetician friends, I've had some amazing facials from friends of mine where I leave and I'm like, wow, I feel…
DR: That's cool.
IMC: You know, like they really lifted and got rid of tension. And again, I think you said earlier, it's hard to do on yourself. Like, I can do so much on my face, but I also love going to my other esthetician friends and being like, please treat me.
IMC: Like, I want to know—there's a lot of hairstylists that cut their own hair, and I'm like, how are you doing that? Because I try to even just get myself a blowout when my hair is longer, and I'm like, I'm done with this. I cannot.
IMC: It's funny when I see my parents cut each other's hair, because they're so perfectionist. They're always, like, bickering about it, too. It's like, kind of hilarious.
IMC: Yeah, like, you do this wrong or do this, get that.
DR: What do you think of Kim Kay's new, basically like, you know, liposuction garment for your face? Like, it just came out, so…
DR: Have you tried it yet or no? It's basically a liposuction garment for your face, but she's slinging it as like a face shaper.
IMC: A face shape. I mean, it's compression, obviously. Yeah, it's—if you've had surgery, it's great. It's great, yeah. But you need motion for a lymphatic drainage.
DR: Good call out. Good call out.
IMC: I don't—it's just going to—I would, I don't, I don't want to sleep in that.
DR: Yeah.
IMC: Do you want to sleep in that?
DR: I mean, I haven't tried it on, but I don't know how tight it is. If it's any—if it's as tight as a liposuction garment, that's tight, you know.
IMC: Yeah, I don't think it's that tight.
DR: Yeah. We'll find out.
IMC: Yeah.
DR: Yeah. I mean, maybe we should order one.
IMC: I think it's sold out.
DR: Yeah. But, you know, people want, people want these things. I don't know if it's her cachet that people are buying them or they really want to believe that it's going to shape their face.
IMC: I think the thing, too, with—okay, let's talk about face shape, you know. Like, a lot of times people will pinch under here and be like, can we like snatch this up. Sometimes people have lymph fluid built here, sometimes they have a lot of puffiness and if you do a proper lymphatic massage, great facial, like, yeah, they might look pretty different by the time you're done.
IMC: There are some people also have a fat pad here that's a little extra and they would improve from getting chin liposuction. And some people have more just skin laxity. It's not even like they have much fat, but if you're getting laxity and then you're getting there.
IMC: So I think it's also addressing what is the cause if you want a snatched jawline and if people think that compression garment is going to give it to them. It's like, well, one, you need motion for lymphatic, so that's not going to help you, like, move your lymph fluid out. Obviously, compression's not bad, but it's not the same as getting a lymphatic massage.
IMC: If you have skin laxity, it's going to do nothing. And if you have a fat pad there, it's going to do nothing.
DR: You're breaking hearts right now.
IMC: Yeah, I mean, you just have to get to the bottom of—you also know like what might be causing your…or if someone's wanting that snatched jaw, like there's multiple things there to achieve it.
DR: Totally. There was actually a good study by Dr. Alam at Northwestern. He actually studied the facial exercises to see if they actually made a difference in facial shape and they did show a positive correlation between facial exercises and like midface fullness—so, like, it actually did help change their face a little.
DR: It's like lifting.
IMC: Yeah.
DR: So, I mean, again, but it only works as you keep it up, right? So keep going with, you know, the gym and everything else.
IMC: Totally.
DR: So, I mean, again, but it only works as you keep it up, right? So keep going with, you know, the gym and everything else.
IMC: Totally.
DR: Shifting gears just a little bit. How did you get involved with the Melanoma Research Foundation? Because that's huge. We work with them a lot, you know, from the skin cancer point of view.
IMC: Yeah. So I mentioned earlier how I thought I might want to go pre-med to be a derm or plastic, didn't decide to do that. So I've always had this affinity towards skin, skin health. My grandmother is a melanoma survivor.
DR: So, wow. I didn't know that.
IMC: When I was young at her pool, you know, she has a scar on her right—from her right knee into her inner thigh, like quite a large scar from her surgery. She had it back in the 80s. So I was aware of skin cancer and melanoma from a young age because of her telling me at the pool and, you know, started wearing sunscreen.
IMC: I mean, I had my moments over the years where I got a burn or wasn't super, super diligent.
DR: Did you ever use tanning beds?
IMC: I honestly… I honestly…
DR: I know.
IMC: I was in one like a handful of times.
DR: Same. I mean, I grew up in Staten Island.
IMC: Yeah.
DR: So that is like my skin sin that I…
IMC: I know. I wish I could reverse that. But only a handful of times. So it's not like I was like a tannerexic or anything.
DR: Yeah, yeah.
IMC: And so…
DR: That's the technical term.
IMC: I was always into protecting my skin from a young age, for the most part, minus my mess up with a few tanning bed visits. And I've also always been interested in just clubs, extracurriculars. In high school, I was in like the Green Club and Best.
IMC: And in college then through that process, I started doing some volunteering. I was on the Wistar Institute's Young Ambassadors, which is a biomedical research facility in Philadelphia on Penn's campus, not associated with Penn, but it's located on Penn's campus. I went to Drexel University in Philadelphia and got involved with the Philadelphia Art Museum and just different causes.
IMC: So after becoming an aesthetician and now living in New York, I hadn't done any of that in a few years and felt like I had my kind of wheels in a good position in terms of doing facials and keeping up with my content and it's like, oh, what should—like, I want to get involved and kind of have more of a deeper meaning.
IMC: I had been talking a lot about sun safety and using sunscreen on my channels. So my aunt actually—this is the step before getting involved with the [MRF].
IMC: By the end of the lunch meeting, I was on the committee for the Skin Cancer Foundation and did that for two years. And then I had been attending the Melanoma Research Foundation gala as well. I think it had been like two years that I went and with EltaMD.
IMC: And since I had experience in being on the Skin Cancer Foundation committee, I asked the MRF to join their committee, I joined their committee, and then that relationship just kind of blossomed quite quickly. I really like the team there.
DR: Really quickly. You got undressed for the MRF.
IMC: So, yeah, I joined the committee and started, you know, working on the committee. And shortly after that, they actually approached me about giving me their Influencer Award at the gala. And I was like, thank you. I was like, is that okay? Because I'm on the committee, but now you want to give me an award. And they were like, it happens.
IMC: So did that. It was the most I've ever raised for any of my charity initiatives for that gala, that particular gala. So that was rewarding and I was very excited about that.
IMC: And then that kind of morphed into—they do the annual Get Naked campaign. But, you know, if anyone’s watching—it's their annual public PSA for melanoma to remind people to go to their dermatologists, get their annual skin exams. So it's a bit cheeky. Literally a naked photo shoot, black and white. You're not showing…
DR: Very artistic, though.
IMC: Yeah, it's not like they're showing anything because that'd be pornographic. It's artistic. It's meant to be a bit shocking and be like, oh, Get Naked what, and catch people's attention.
IMC: So yeah, they approached me about being the spokesperson this year. So I'm their spokesperson for a year for the Get Naked campaign. And we've had a lot of fun initiatives. I officially found out last fall. So it did consume my team. I have management and—from my content projects.
IMC: And once we found out, I was like, we're really going to do this. So on top of what the foundation plans, we started planning additional initiatives just to make it a larger public awareness push—from shopping fundraisers to a media tour to just hosting other events. So it was a really fun time.
DR: I love that. Yeah. I mean, we got to destigmatize getting naked in front of your doctor, at least.
IMC: Through this process, [I] have realized how, like, prohibitive it can be because I—I don't know, I guess I just was comfortable getting naked. Yeah. But you know, there's a lot of people who feel shameful or, I think in health, in health care overall, you know, there's a lot of people that might want to avoid going to the doctor.
DR: For sure.
IMC: Ignorance is bliss sometimes.
DR: Medical distrust.
IMC: Yeah. So it's really more just—you know, my friend Dr. Garia, he has two practices in Jersey, and we did a skin exam event that we wrapped with the MRF because he's on the committee for the gala this year.
IMC: And we had creators come and I did like a sun safety presentation to them and he gave them skin exams. And then they made, you know, Instagram Reels, TikTok videos about them going and getting their skin exam. And the whole point of that was really showing it's super easy, you know—like once you get over, oh, I might feel uncomfortable because you're actually getting nude.
IMC: It doesn't take that long, you know, getting the glance over, checking the spots. It's not, it doesn't hurt, you know, unless maybe you need a biopsy, but that's…
DR: It's also minimal pain.
DR: Yeah, I think, I think destigmatizing the whole process is super important, right? I mean, we try to tell people, you know, it is—especially if you have a family history—like, it's super important to get checked. So that's amazing.
DR: And the MRF has, you know, awarded our fellows at the hospital grants for their research in melanoma, which has been really wonderful. So it's a great organization. So congrats.
IMC: Thank you. Yeah, they're really fun to work with. And I'm also part of the Get Naked—they asked me to be the gala co-chair. So I'm co-chairing their gala at the New York gala, October 30th this year.
DR: Oh, cool. So if anyone's listening and wants to attend, let us know, it's at the Cipriani in Financial District. Fun.
DR: Speaking about products and, you know, the time it takes for things to actually work, some things get worse before they get better. How do you encourage your patients or clients to push through?
DR: A lot of—you see a lot of people, yeah, they have like, if they're trying to do retinoids, it's a disaster.
IMC: Yeah, because they have that purge.
DR: The purge. There's also people that get confused with retinoids and prescription strength, and then they buy a product that's…
IMC: I know.
DR: I don't get it. Like, if you're using prescription retinoids, people, you don't need retinol in your products.
IMC: Yeah, but there's a lot of confusion there and people that want to use both. And they're marketed—retinol is so heavily marketed that, like, they don't understand that if you're getting a prescription retinoid, you know…
DR: Retinoids.
DR: And then how do you determine what type of facial someone needs? Like, tell us, you know, what you think.
IMC: So I mostly only do like pre-event. That's my whole—like, that's what I love. It's like, I love the massage element.
DR: You love the glam.
IMC: And I love referring to friends. So, you know, if someone is having, you know, they're concerned with acne and really want more of like an extraction-heavy facial, my friend Sophie Pavitt has Sophie Pavitt Studio in New York, and I'm telling people all the time, like, go to her studio. She loves—you know, they really focus on acne.
IMC: There's a ton of different facials. I mean, I think pre-event, anything just like hydration, you know, focusing on massage, some soothing masks, maybe some oxygen—that's all great, like, no downtime.
IMC: And then increasing circulation. If someone's going into that situation because they're battling acne or they want to really lift pigmentation, maybe they need a peel, you know. You're going to get some downtime there, especially depending [on] the grade of the peel. Or other types of facials—I mean, lots of things you can do in a facial.
IMC: Some people, I think, you know, when I do a facial I try to combine obviously my fingers and LED, some cryo. There’s sometimes people go and they get like a piece of that.
DR: Some of my patients ask me, you know, can I get Botox and then get a facial? Not like on the same day. Like, give your Botox time to set up, which is usually very quick, like 30 minutes or so. Like, it actually hits the receptor. But don't immediately then go get like a heavy, massage-heavy facial or anything like that.
IMC: Yeah. I feel like this is where derms and [estheticians] have butt heads because I ask so many derms, like, protocol. And some people have said, oh, they can get one four hours after. People say, oh, at 30 minutes and it's in. You know, there's a lot of like old wives' tales.
IMC: Yeah. So I—my facial is super heavy. So I like there to be like a two-day period in there.
DR: You know, like, you're even more conservative.
IMC: Cautious. But I—that's, I've asked so many derms. So I'm happy to hear your take on it as well.
IMC: A lot of intake forms at spas will ask for a two-week period.
DR: Yeah, which is interesting. I think that's—two weeks is the time that it usually takes to like fully kick in. Yeah. But, you know, I'm just more cautious about like the pressure on the skin like right after the injections.
DR: And, you know, most people are not like running from this office to that office. But I feel like most of them for neuromodulator ask two weeks.
IMC: Yeah.
DR: Yeah. Which I think is, like, overly cautious, you know, but…
IMC: How long would you say for filler if…?
DR: Yeah, it depends what you're doing. Again, I wouldn't do it right after. I would give it, like, a good 48 hours to, like, set up. I mean, there are certain fillers that don't really integrate for a full, like, two weeks into the dermis, into the fat.
DR: So, but for the first 48 hours, you can sort of mold that filler if you're pressing really hard. And I tell patients that—like, I set it, they forget it, meaning like I'm putting it strategically where I think it needs to be and what they want. They're not going to go home and massage the hell out of it because they run the risk of deforming it a little bit, especially in that early 48 hours.
IMC: But some of the fillers you're supposed to massage.
DR: Yes. Unless it's like a more skin booster, skin hydrator, you need to massage that, I say, go to town. You know, Sculptra, poly-L-lactic acid, they have to massage 5-5-5. We say five minutes a day, five times a day for five days. So go for that facial.
IMC: If you give someone Sculptra, when would you allow them to see me?
DR: I don't mind them to—you can go right after, you know, because they need the massage anyway. They need to massage that. Sculptra, you know, is made out of suture material. So they really need to help break that down and make sure they don't get any lumps or bumps.
DR: So we can work together.
IMC: Yeah. That's great.
DR: So, Ian, this was an amazing conversation. You know, I learned a lot about you, actually. I didn't know your whole history. So that's awesome.
IMC: Thank you for having [me].
DR: And, yeah, thank you for being here.
IMC: I gave you all my skincare. So in true OnlyFans fashion, you can rate my skincare later on.
DR: Okay. I love it.
IMC: I'll be back, guys.
DR: Exactly. I should grab it now and do like a first reaction.
IMC: Yeah.
DR: But that's contrary to what we said. You need four weeks.
IMC: Yeah, you need to give it time.
DR: So that's a great message that we could just leave the audience. It's like there's a lot of marketing out there. You really need to give things time to work. You know, give it a critical eye and try to—brands push out SKUs all the time and that's trying to keep things fresh. But there's certain things that really do work and you need to find those products or partner with derms and estheticians.
IMC: I'm always testing being in the space. I'm going to test. I've already tried a few of your products. I'm sure I'll test all of them. But I also end up gravitating—after I've tested things and can be able to, like, have the product knowledge of, you know, whether I'm going to vouch for that product or not—I always end up going back to certain products that are my, like, holy grails.
DR: Yeah. I mean, you're always giving good face, so…
IMC: Thank you.
DR: Once you find those products, you know, unless you work in beauty, like, stick to your product until you feel like you need to get a little boost and then start by asking your derm and your aesthetician, like, where to boost it.
IMC: I love it.
DR: Thanks so much for listening. Don't miss an episode. Subscribe to Give Good Face wherever you get your podcast.
Facial Massage, Lymphatic Drainage & Anti-Aging Secrets with Ian Michael Crumm
On This Week's Episode:
Ever wonder what it really takes to get healthy, glowing skin? NYC master esthetician Ian Michael Crum, co-host of the Beauty Curious podcast, joins Dr. Rossi to reveal the professional skincare tips and treatments that actually work. From facials and lymphatic drainage to building a skincare routine that delivers visible results, Ian shares insider advice on how to achieve radiant, long-term skin health.
He also debunks common beauty myths — like whether you can use too much hyaluronic acid or if Vitamin C serums are really worth the hype. Plus, Ian opens up about his role as the 2025 Get Naked Campaign spokesperson for the Melanoma Research Foundation, where he’s raising awareness for melanoma prevention and breaking the stigma around regular skin checks.
Whether you’re a skincare lover, beauty professional, or just chasing that glow, this episode delivers the science, strategy, and skin wisdom you actually need.
Guest Bio:
Ian Michael Crumm, a licensed esthetician and beauty expert, has devoted his career to the pursuit of skincare excellence. From a young age, Ian was fascinated by makeup, and his passion only grew stronger as he delved into skincare during his teenage years. As a content creator, Ian’s dedication to the beauty world helped him carve out a niche as a trusted authority in the space.
With a client list that includes movie producers and country music artists, Ian’s impact on the industry is undeniable. Additionally, his advocacy for sun safety and skin cancer awareness has earned him a spot on the committee for The Skin Cancer Foundation’s Champions for Change Gala. Embodying his catchphrase “making sun safety sexy,” Ian’s mission is to promote healthy skincare habits while keeping beauty at the forefront.
Episode Transcript:
DR: What's an overhyped ingredient that you see people gravitating towards?
IMC: I like hyluronic acid, but I do think that it's just in everything. And there's a lot of people that feel like they need a dedicated serum. I'm more concerned with someone getting that sunscreen on their face.
IMC: So many people will be like, I'm getting married next week. What can I do? I'm like, absolutely nothing.
DR: Give me your take on guasha. Should people be doing it at home?
IMC: I have different guasha style tools that I'll use sometimes in facials.
DR: Can you help shape someone's face with lymphatic massage, this tension that we put…?
IMC: I think if someone drank a lot, had a lot of salt, they're holding a lot of lymph fluid in their face, you can see it pretty much instantly after you started working on it for a few minutes.
DR: What do you think of Kim Kay's new liposuction garment for your face?
IMC: I mean, it's compression, obviously, it's had surgery, it's great, but...
DR: I'm Dr. Anthony Rossi, and you're listening to Give Good Face.
DR: Today, I am most fortunate to be with Ian Michael Crum, a master esthetician in New York City. He's also the co-host of a podcast Beauty Curious that you can check out, as well as the 2025 MRF, that's the Melanoma Research Foundation, Get Naked Campaign. So he has a lot going on and he's going to spend time with us and talk about everything from skin tips to finding skin cancer and everything in between.
IMC: Totally. I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having me.
DR: Yeah, thanks, Ian. So we've known each other, you know, for a little bit now and we see each other at all the same events. And I'm really curious to see how your career has progressed and where you came from, how you've evolved and, you know, I know you have a passion for skin. So how did you translate that into a career?
IMC: Totally. So I've been into beauty since I was little. My mother is very cool. She's had like these long design nails. She always gets these custom nails all the time. She's getting a good picture right now. You know, she goes to get her hair dyed. And so when I was little, she let me, I had an affinity for her doing her nails and hair and she started taking me to the salon. She'd let me experiment with getting my hair colored or I'd get like pedicures while she's getting her nails done. So I was always into beauty as like overall.
IMC: And in high school, I had mild acne, nothing crazy, but I had some mild acne. And I had these bumps around my eye that at the time I had no clue what it was. I went to the dermatologist, went through that process. I just kind of had this affinity.
IMC: In some point I subscribed to Dermatology Times and my mom was like, what did you, what did you order? Because I had a debit card and I'm like, uh-huh.
DR: You had the New Beauty magazine, Dermatology Times…
IMC: Yeah. I was always buying New Beauty, which I didn't realize, I guess it had newly come out around that time when I was in high school, but I would always buy that, read that. And so in high school, I started taking like AP Calc, advanced science classes. I dabbled with the thought of going pre-med.
DR: Oh, nice.
IMC: And in a conversation with my great aunt, my grandfather's sister, sort of just realized, I don't think I want to be a doctor, but the idea was fun in the moment. And I was kind of preparing. And I've always liked math and science classes anyway. So didn't end up doing it.
IMC: But in my brain I thought, oh, maybe I'll go premed, become a, become a plastic or a derm because I was like that whole process with my derm at the time.
IMC: Went to school for marketing communications, didn't take that path. But as I established, I've always been into beauty. And when I went to school, I at the time, I actually thought I wanted to produce fashion shows for a living. So I got in this whole path of like volunteering for event planners and in the whole like fashion marketing world.
IMC: I technically started blogging in high school, but I started my blog, my freshman year of college, and I just kept doing that. So for many years, I was a lifestyle fashion blogger.
IMC: I used to do stuff with like Details Magazine whenever existed, RIP, GQ, Refinery29, etc. And over the years I would always still talk about beauty. So kind of kept going down that path.
IMC: A lot of cool things started happening in the blog space. Obviously, over the years, Instagram grew and grew and grew, just overall. Like, I started out on WordPress, so I used to just blog every day. And after so many years of blogging, I was like, this is fun, but I started getting tired of always being on my phone. I sort of hit this lull.
IMC: I had shifted from doing mostly fashion content to talking a lot about beauty and was getting questions online about skincare and I would post when I'd go get facials or any sort of other treatment and I'd have a lot more dialogue around that. Fashion's great, but I was getting a lot of like, you look great or I love your outfit or a cute shirt, you know, that sort of stuff. And I was like, okay, I'm not really feeling fulfilled here.
IMC: So decided to do the aesthetics path. And that was really just for my personal kind of confidence in people asking questions. So I felt like I would always been well read, but I started to second guess like, oh, I hope I'm recommending the right product of these people that are asking these questions.
IMC: But then through that process, I'm like, I really do like massaging. One of my top love language is touch. And I don't know, there's just something making someone feel really relaxed and beautiful in a treatment table. So I've kind of just honed in and focused on that the past like almost five years of, okay, I'm going to do facials, aesthetics, but it's complemented now with all my digital past with, well, digital past and present in terms of content creation.
IMC: And my platforms have now shifted from what used to be like fashion lifestyle blogger to beauty blogger, esthetician, to now definitely like skin health advocate. And as you mentioned, I talk a lot about sun safety, skin cancer prevention, awareness. So yeah, that's the fast version of the story. There was a lot of things in between.
DR: That was the fast version.
IMC: That was the fast version. There was a lot of pivots and crazy things that happened in the middle. I mean, that's real. Like I said, I have just beauty in general, not just skin, you know, like always changing my hairstyle, playing with makeup. She bought me one of those, like, mannequin heads that cosmetology students use, and I would, like, play and put makeup on it. And so I've just—anything beauty related, I was always interested in some sense.
DR: Cool. So I grew up with hairdressers. My parents were both hairdressers. They have a salon. So I always grew up in the salon. And I do remember my dad from a very early age, making me go to…
DR: My father actually was a big proponent of that, which I think is interesting, you know, in that sense. It was super relaxing, not that I needed to relax because I was basically in high school and, like, you know, the world is not that stressful.
DR: For me, it wasn't. I think in high school, I had like two breakdowns in high school because I put too much on my plate and then you learn how to manage it.
IMC: Yeah, totally.
DR: But they were definitely—it was relaxing. It was also a source of information because the aesthetician was super knowledgeable about like what I was putting on my skin, you know, making sure that I had a good diet in relation to my skin. So it was a really source of information.
DR: So tell us how you integrate your work with like what I do, dermatology. And I'm sure you know there's a super overlap and like you see patients all the time. I mean, I feel like at times derms and estheticians butt heads or at least on the internet. Tell me.
IMC: Yeah. I know. There's a lot of that.
DR: What's the, what's the beef?
IMC: Yeah. I think maybe just approach to, yeah, how to treat the skin or whether they think certain modalities will work. Okay.
IMC: I feel like because I have always, you know, I thought I might want to go and be a derm. Like, I've always very much appreciated medicine. So I think there's areas in aesthetics that are more holistic in a sense and don't want to engage with, you know, anything sort of related to pharmaceutical.
IMC: I feel like everything I do is like a blend, you know? I like Eastern practices, Western practices. I'm kind of like more is more of like anything to make me feel good, relax, monitor my health.
IMC: You partner with the derm. I'm not here diagnosing disease. I'm not a medical—yeah. I'm not a doctor. So I think derms are very necessary.
IMC: In my facials, in my intake form, actually, I, I'm trying to think if I've ever seen this, but I ask people if they've had skin checks. And the last time they've been to derms, and I make it a big part of, you know, me talking about sun safety, I make it a big part of what I try to push on clients and remind them, okay, beyond, even if you've been wearing sunscreen every day, if you haven't had a skin check, like, I really need you to go see a derm. And I refer them or help, like, link them in with my different dermatologist friends.
DR: That's amazing.
IMC: I think kind of started using this new tagline: beauty starts with your health.
DR: I like that. You heard it here.
IMC: You have to, you know, know what's going on and whatnot. So in terms of how an aesthetician—myself or another aesthetician—working with derms, I think comboing what you guys can do in terms of advanced lasers, deeper peels, obviously just full-on skin checks.
IMC: And then, I mean, estheticians, we're the ones that are in there touching the face for potentially a full hour. And I feel like that's the big difference I try to explain to clients or just people on the internet is derms should be your first start. You should be getting like a full check. Make sure everything's healthy, good. You can get guidance from them too.
IMC: And then for your like monthly maintenance, like unless you're dealing with a very intense skin issue and you need to go on some sort of oral medication, you know, go to your esthetician for your monthly maintenance and whatnot. But I definitely think derms and estheticians should be working hand in hand.
DR: Yeah, same. I mean, I love my patients that go see estheticians on the regular because they're getting extractions. They're really maintaining, like, their skin health in the fact that they're becoming really conscious about what they put on their skin and how they protect the barrier.
DR: Also, the lymphatic drainage, I think, is super important just for overall puffiness and such. And, you know, the engagement, I think, is helpful. Because if I put someone on isotretinoin or Accutane, they're becoming super dry, you know, they have to really be mindful about sun exposure and also just keeping the barrier protected. So they're seeing an aesthetician every month. That's huge.
IMC: That's awesome.
DR: I think, too, it's skincare routines. While being in the space, I test a good amount of products, but I would never recommend anyone test as much as I test.
IMC: Yeah.
DR: You know, and I try to get people—stick to your routine. It is a living organ. You know, it's going to shift with the climate and just, you know, a ton of factors, but you should be sticking with pretty much the same set of products for a good chunk of time, and you can, like, rotate things in and out.
DR: But I think people that are able to go see their…in there kind of get these like micro refinements on a month-to-month basis, like, oh, actually that product's not working. Like, let's swap it out, you know, which are things that you don't think in real time.
DR: That's a great point, Ian, because they're seeing you like pretty monthly, right, almost every month. How long do you ask them to actually try their skincare? Because I always tell patients, like, you need to give it at least six weeks to work, especially if they're using a prescription, right, like, you know, that's going to go through a phase, right? Like, I might give them isotretinoin and they may break out. Isotretinoin's Accutane. So they may actually have a flare and they need to like work through that flare.
IMC: I normally say it's like four weeks minimum. Because I like to go off of say like, hey, your skin cycles 28 days, but it slows down as you age. You know, that sort of spiel and just educate around how the skin actually works.
IMC: So I say four weeks, but I like to also put guardrails there of obviously if you put a product on it and it starts burning, like you have to be aware of signs. If it's not meant to exfoliate your skin—like, why is your skin turning, right? You know, so don't just keep using a product because you're giving it the four weeks. You could have a reaction. So you've got to be aware of those things.
IMC: But yeah, I think four weeks is a good baseline, but I like six is better. I just find that people do get impatient. And also you can't like keep swapping things in and out. You know, if you want to see like if your skin improves, you can swap one product, use that new product. It's hard when people want to start just overhauling everything.
DR: I know. That's my biggest concern is like people are impatient, right? Especially with their skin because it's so visible. And like they really, you know, they get an emotional reaction if like their skin's not having a great day.
DR: Yeah and the idea of like skin cycling over and over and over again—they're never giving something a chance to really do its magic or do its work, you know. So I do think they have to like cut through the BS marketing claim. So I tell people to look for clinical trials or real clinical results and then give it a good go for a while.
IMC: I tell people often, I'm like, you'd probably be shocked at—and I've posted, you know, my skincare routines before—but probably shocked at how minimal my routine normally is. I think people just assume, you know, it's like 10 steps or whatnot, but you don't have time for 10 steps. Day to day, it's pretty crazy.
IMC: Exactly. Part of my step is my dog licks my whole face, you know, and so…
DR: Is that your pre-cleanse?
IMC: Yeah, exactly. That's like an enzymatic cleanse.
DR: I love it.
IMC: Yeah. He loves it. He…
(Now we get back into the “overhyped ingredient / gua sha / lymphatic / Kim K” section in full context; I’ll keep tagging consistently.)
DR: …gravitating towards.
IMC: I like hyluronic acid, but I do think that it's just in everything and people, there's a lot of people that feel like they need a dedicated serum when, like, in their routine, which it's fine. I don't think that's going to change your face.
IMC: I think if you're going to an event and you want to layer on the hyluronic or, you know, hydration and really plump up the skin… But I'm more concerned with someone getting that sunscreen on their face and using an antioxidant, and I find, like, people are using hyaluronic acid, moisturizer, sometimes sunscreen, and they don't have an antioxidant in there.
IMC: So I'm like, market this a little less and market getting things that are actually kind of doing a bit more.
DR: For your skin health, yeah.
IMC: But there's a lot of overhyped. Yeah, there's a lot of…
IMC: I do like hyaluronic acid.
DR: Yeah, of course. I'm saying I think the general perception is it also is going to like potentially transform someone's face, and it's going to hydrate it. Yeah, for sure. It's a great hydrator. But, yeah, I see what you mean. What about you?
IMC: Yeah.
DR: I honestly, I think people know this already because I always say this on— I think vitamin C is way overhyped. I love antioxidants. I just think there's so many good antioxidants. It doesn't have to be vitamin C. It can be any antioxidant.
DR: Yeah, I'm a huge proponent of antioxidants. The vitamin C story has evolved over time and I think so many brands have just like automatically included it because they feel like they have to. Yeah. And there's so much market awareness about it.
DR: Does it actually help? I've seen a lot of people get irritated like you said and they just will keep pushing through with it. And I'm like, no, stop. It's a weak acid. It's actually irritating your skin. I think that's my hot take.
DR: Ingredients just going in cycles because of marketing. You know, hyaluronic acid, vitamin C, niacinamide. It's like had a really big market share the last few years.
IMC: I slather niacinamide. I take nicotinamide. I'm all about like the internal. So, yeah, I do love an antioxidant.
DR: I also work at a cancer center. So I tell people, you know, if they're on chemotherapy and such, like you have to be very careful with ingesting antioxidants because it actually works against the chemo, right? You know, whenever you're seeing an esthetician or, you know, a derm or anyone, you really have to tell them what you're going through. So, like, that intake form is actually important.
DR: So people fill out the intake form. A lot of people breeze through it.
IMC: I know.
DR: And I really—give the details here.
IMC: Totally.
DR: And they tell—you ask what their routine is and they're like, cleanser, moisturizer, SPF. I'm like, I want to know what.
IMC: You want details. Like, get granular.
DR: Yeah. And you brought up a good point, like, prepping for an event. So many people will be like, I'm getting married next week. What can I do? And I'm like, absolutely nothing. Like, you're perfect, you know, for this next week.
DR: What is your go-to? Like, let's say you're prepping, because it's going to be fall soon. You're prepping for a wedding.
DR: Sure. When do you want people to come in and start? What do you like to do? Walk us through that.
IMC: I mean, I would definitely tell them to go to a derm like six months before and see if their derm's wanting them to do any sort of lasers more advanced because you have the time there. Maybe like two months before, I do like a low-grade peel, another month before like a low-grade peel.
IMC: I don't do—I do like very, very gentle peels that someone might flake a little bit. It's more just for the glow and a little extra exfoliation. But I will do that. And then, yeah, it's just hydration and a lot of lymphatic.
IMC: I know there's estheticians that have other specialties, but I always say it's all about my fingers.
DR: Yeah, yeah.
IMC: It's just a great tagline. As I mentioned earlier, you know, I didn't actually think that I was going to even really practice aesthetics at all, but I liked the facial massage element through the training. And I like being able for that to someone.
IMC: And the other day, actually, I was doing a set of editor facials and one of them asked me, don't your fingers get tired. And I'm like, it's actually the opposite because I've had so many years where I'm like gripping my cell phone and like always on a cell phone that it's this break from that.
IMC: And I say a facial massage is like ballet for my fingers. So they're like flipping and filling all around, and it's like just pretty much stretching my hands out. So a lot of lymphatic massage.
IMC: I like when people go get full body lymphatic massages, you know, I'm all about multiple specialists getting in there, especially if you have a big day for a wedding, you know, go see your derm, go get lymphatic, go to the sauna, sweat it out, get, you know, walk.
DR: Are you a fan of red light or blue light? I am. Give me the hot take on that.
IMC: Yeah, I love it. I mean, I sit in front of a red light panel, so…
DR: Yeah, LED is great.
IMC: Yeah. I use LED in basically every facial at some point throughout the process.
IMC: Little EMS, my fingers. I like using cryo globes, cryo-wands as well. I like to balance, obviously, doing drainage, stimulating the muscle with just a sensorial experience.
IMC: This is kind of a moment for the person to really just have their own moment and relax and get in the right head space because, you know, getting your hair and makeup done isn't normally like a relaxing experience. It could be really fun, but it's high energy.
IMC: And then if you're going straight into a carpet or a performance or something that's, you know, very stimulating, like it's nice to have this moment where you can kind of like dump all of your anxieties or just sort of pent-up feeling. So I…
IMC: …but I was like, wow, like it was like a rock. And we did like three facials, three days in a row. And I really focused on her masseter tension and just, I mean, all facial tension, but like her masseter. And she kept getting like locked jaw and she's having issues singing.
IMC: And she swore like after that little trio session that it was just like her—
DR: That's amazing.
IMC: Her, you know, singing was improved, not her actual voice, but just like how it feels to sing was improved because she was having issues and like just so much tension. So just helping address those things is really good too.
DR: Give me your take on guasha. Should people be doing it at home?
IMC: Yeah. I mean, there's a lot in Korea and it's all, you know, it's everywhere. Yeah, I think gua sha's great. Like I have different gua sha style tools that I'll use sometimes in facials as, you know, added massage.
IMC: I mean, a lot of it is my fingers, but there's a lot of great videos, tutorials online, and there's also a lot of skin influencers or people that, you know, acting like they're a doctor or a licensed professional, and they're like going like up and down and, you know, there's no actual reason for their method.
DR: And can you just show our audience, like, what direction you should be, like, draining?
IMC: Upward and outward. I mean, you have a lot of lymph nodes here.
DR: Yeah, for sure.
IMC: So you want to definitely start like under, like maybe I'll look this way. Like yeah. You definitely want to start here.
IMC: Actually was doing this with another doctor the other day. And it's kind of hard when you don't have any product on your face. So put a little serum there. Like basically just glide down along.
IMC: You want to go up. It's kind of like right behind your ear a little bit. Sometimes I do a little pulsing here and then sweep down the side. So you're really working with the lymphatic chain here and then draining patterns of the lymph nodes.
DR: Yeah. Our lymph nodes drain in a specific pattern. And I think it's actually sometimes hard to do it yourself. And that's why I think like going to see a, you know, an aesthetician who's really specialized in this is a game changer. It feels different.
IMC: Yeah. Yeah.
DR: So definitely like working all the lymph passages.
IMC: and then I like to do a lot—kind of get in and just work the muscles in a different way. And I think intra-oral massage feels amazing. Some people are really weirded out by it, but it can help really get a lot of tension.
DR: Have you ever had it?
IMC: Not. I brought my gloves.
DR: Really? Thank you.
IMC: I was like, have I ever had it? I was like, not at an aesthetician's office. No.
DR: But yeah, I mean, I think it's really important. Because even myself, like, when I'm examining someone, I'm feeling their masseters, like, I want to feel inside, outside, you know, there's a whole anatomy that's complex there, right?
DR: And, yeah, again, you know the anatomy. It's really important to understand that you have to go to someone that eats, lives, breathes, sleeps this, you know, this craft. Because it really is something that's really important.
DR: And you can get so many different degrees. Just like a doctor, you can get different degrees of a doctor. You can get different degrees of an aesthetician, right? Someone who's just about the product or someone who's really about the holistic approach.
IMC: Yeah. And there's other trainings. Certified with different peels or massage techniques. And yeah, that's the fun thing. You can just keep going and learning.
DR: Do you feel that, and I'm leading up to another question, which I think you'll like, but the idea of facial shaping—can you help shape someone's face with lymphatic massage and, you know, this tension that we put in?
IMC: Yeah, I think if someone drank a lot, they had a lot of salt, they're holding a lot of, like, lymph fluid in their face. You can see it pretty much instantly after you start working on it for a few minutes and let it start to slowly drain out of the face.
IMC: And I like to talk about, you know, any sort of muscle stimulation. It's like going to the gym.
DR: Can I ask you this? Have you been to a face gym?
IMC: I have been to a face gym.
DR: Yeah, I went once. It was interesting.
DR: Did you like it?
IMC: Yeah, they used a lot of like electric current to stimulate it.
DR: Yeah, like electric current, EMS, like, obviously like hand motion. So I think you can definitely get a sculpt from a facial.
IMC: Yeah.
DR: But it's just like working out, you know, if you work out for a couple months and then you stop working out and you never work out another day in your life, well, you're not going to keep your results.
DR: You know, it's like I think it's the same thing with any sort of lymphatic drainage, muscle stimulation on the face. It's the same as working out. It's the same because you're not going to have hydrated skin if you put moisturizer on once and then you stop using it.
IMC: Amen. Everything is a daily practice.
IMC: So, I mean, I've had some—I've other esthetician friends, I've had some amazing facials from friends of mine where I leave and I'm like, wow, I feel…
DR: That's cool.
IMC: You know, like they really lifted and got rid of tension. And again, I think you said earlier, it's hard to do on yourself. Like, I can do so much on my face, but I also love going to my other esthetician friends and being like, please treat me.
IMC: Like, I want to know—there's a lot of hairstylists that cut their own hair, and I'm like, how are you doing that? Because I try to even just get myself a blowout when my hair is longer, and I'm like, I'm done with this. I cannot.
IMC: It's funny when I see my parents cut each other's hair, because they're so perfectionist. They're always, like, bickering about it, too. It's like, kind of hilarious.
IMC: Yeah, like, you do this wrong or do this, get that.
DR: What do you think of Kim Kay's new, basically like, you know, liposuction garment for your face? Like, it just came out, so…
DR: Have you tried it yet or no? It's basically a liposuction garment for your face, but she's slinging it as like a face shaper.
IMC: A face shape. I mean, it's compression, obviously. Yeah, it's—if you've had surgery, it's great. It's great, yeah. But you need motion for a lymphatic drainage.
DR: Good call out. Good call out.
IMC: I don't—it's just going to—I would, I don't, I don't want to sleep in that.
DR: Yeah.
IMC: Do you want to sleep in that?
DR: I mean, I haven't tried it on, but I don't know how tight it is. If it's any—if it's as tight as a liposuction garment, that's tight, you know.
IMC: Yeah, I don't think it's that tight.
DR: Yeah. We'll find out.
IMC: Yeah.
DR: Yeah. I mean, maybe we should order one.
IMC: I think it's sold out.
DR: Yeah. But, you know, people want, people want these things. I don't know if it's her cachet that people are buying them or they really want to believe that it's going to shape their face.
IMC: I think the thing, too, with—okay, let's talk about face shape, you know. Like, a lot of times people will pinch under here and be like, can we like snatch this up. Sometimes people have lymph fluid built here, sometimes they have a lot of puffiness and if you do a proper lymphatic massage, great facial, like, yeah, they might look pretty different by the time you're done.
IMC: There are some people also have a fat pad here that's a little extra and they would improve from getting chin liposuction. And some people have more just skin laxity. It's not even like they have much fat, but if you're getting laxity and then you're getting there.
IMC: So I think it's also addressing what is the cause if you want a snatched jawline and if people think that compression garment is going to give it to them. It's like, well, one, you need motion for lymphatic, so that's not going to help you, like, move your lymph fluid out. Obviously, compression's not bad, but it's not the same as getting a lymphatic massage.
IMC: If you have skin laxity, it's going to do nothing. And if you have a fat pad there, it's going to do nothing.
DR: You're breaking hearts right now.
IMC: Yeah, I mean, you just have to get to the bottom of—you also know like what might be causing your…or if someone's wanting that snatched jaw, like there's multiple things there to achieve it.
DR: Totally. There was actually a good study by Dr. Alam at Northwestern. He actually studied the facial exercises to see if they actually made a difference in facial shape and they did show a positive correlation between facial exercises and like midface fullness—so, like, it actually did help change their face a little.
DR: It's like lifting.
IMC: Yeah.
DR: So, I mean, again, but it only works as you keep it up, right? So keep going with, you know, the gym and everything else.
IMC: Totally.
DR: So, I mean, again, but it only works as you keep it up, right? So keep going with, you know, the gym and everything else.
IMC: Totally.
DR: Shifting gears just a little bit. How did you get involved with the Melanoma Research Foundation? Because that's huge. We work with them a lot, you know, from the skin cancer point of view.
IMC: Yeah. So I mentioned earlier how I thought I might want to go pre-med to be a derm or plastic, didn't decide to do that. So I've always had this affinity towards skin, skin health. My grandmother is a melanoma survivor.
DR: So, wow. I didn't know that.
IMC: When I was young at her pool, you know, she has a scar on her right—from her right knee into her inner thigh, like quite a large scar from her surgery. She had it back in the 80s. So I was aware of skin cancer and melanoma from a young age because of her telling me at the pool and, you know, started wearing sunscreen.
IMC: I mean, I had my moments over the years where I got a burn or wasn't super, super diligent.
DR: Did you ever use tanning beds?
IMC: I honestly… I honestly…
DR: I know.
IMC: I was in one like a handful of times.
DR: Same. I mean, I grew up in Staten Island.
IMC: Yeah.
DR: So that is like my skin sin that I…
IMC: I know. I wish I could reverse that. But only a handful of times. So it's not like I was like a tannerexic or anything.
DR: Yeah, yeah.
IMC: And so…
DR: That's the technical term.
IMC: I was always into protecting my skin from a young age, for the most part, minus my mess up with a few tanning bed visits. And I've also always been interested in just clubs, extracurriculars. In high school, I was in like the Green Club and Best.
IMC: And in college then through that process, I started doing some volunteering. I was on the Wistar Institute's Young Ambassadors, which is a biomedical research facility in Philadelphia on Penn's campus, not associated with Penn, but it's located on Penn's campus. I went to Drexel University in Philadelphia and got involved with the Philadelphia Art Museum and just different causes.
IMC: So after becoming an aesthetician and now living in New York, I hadn't done any of that in a few years and felt like I had my kind of wheels in a good position in terms of doing facials and keeping up with my content and it's like, oh, what should—like, I want to get involved and kind of have more of a deeper meaning.
IMC: I had been talking a lot about sun safety and using sunscreen on my channels. So my aunt actually—this is the step before getting involved with the [MRF].
IMC: By the end of the lunch meeting, I was on the committee for the Skin Cancer Foundation and did that for two years. And then I had been attending the Melanoma Research Foundation gala as well. I think it had been like two years that I went and with EltaMD.
IMC: And since I had experience in being on the Skin Cancer Foundation committee, I asked the MRF to join their committee, I joined their committee, and then that relationship just kind of blossomed quite quickly. I really like the team there.
DR: Really quickly. You got undressed for the MRF.
IMC: So, yeah, I joined the committee and started, you know, working on the committee. And shortly after that, they actually approached me about giving me their Influencer Award at the gala. And I was like, thank you. I was like, is that okay? Because I'm on the committee, but now you want to give me an award. And they were like, it happens.
IMC: So did that. It was the most I've ever raised for any of my charity initiatives for that gala, that particular gala. So that was rewarding and I was very excited about that.
IMC: And then that kind of morphed into—they do the annual Get Naked campaign. But, you know, if anyone’s watching—it's their annual public PSA for melanoma to remind people to go to their dermatologists, get their annual skin exams. So it's a bit cheeky. Literally a naked photo shoot, black and white. You're not showing…
DR: Very artistic, though.
IMC: Yeah, it's not like they're showing anything because that'd be pornographic. It's artistic. It's meant to be a bit shocking and be like, oh, Get Naked what, and catch people's attention.
IMC: So yeah, they approached me about being the spokesperson this year. So I'm their spokesperson for a year for the Get Naked campaign. And we've had a lot of fun initiatives. I officially found out last fall. So it did consume my team. I have management and—from my content projects.
IMC: And once we found out, I was like, we're really going to do this. So on top of what the foundation plans, we started planning additional initiatives just to make it a larger public awareness push—from shopping fundraisers to a media tour to just hosting other events. So it was a really fun time.
DR: I love that. Yeah. I mean, we got to destigmatize getting naked in front of your doctor, at least.
IMC: Through this process, [I] have realized how, like, prohibitive it can be because I—I don't know, I guess I just was comfortable getting naked. Yeah. But you know, there's a lot of people who feel shameful or, I think in health, in health care overall, you know, there's a lot of people that might want to avoid going to the doctor.
DR: For sure.
IMC: Ignorance is bliss sometimes.
DR: Medical distrust.
IMC: Yeah. So it's really more just—you know, my friend Dr. Garia, he has two practices in Jersey, and we did a skin exam event that we wrapped with the MRF because he's on the committee for the gala this year.
IMC: And we had creators come and I did like a sun safety presentation to them and he gave them skin exams. And then they made, you know, Instagram Reels, TikTok videos about them going and getting their skin exam. And the whole point of that was really showing it's super easy, you know—like once you get over, oh, I might feel uncomfortable because you're actually getting nude.
IMC: It doesn't take that long, you know, getting the glance over, checking the spots. It's not, it doesn't hurt, you know, unless maybe you need a biopsy, but that's…
DR: It's also minimal pain.
DR: Yeah, I think, I think destigmatizing the whole process is super important, right? I mean, we try to tell people, you know, it is—especially if you have a family history—like, it's super important to get checked. So that's amazing.
DR: And the MRF has, you know, awarded our fellows at the hospital grants for their research in melanoma, which has been really wonderful. So it's a great organization. So congrats.
IMC: Thank you. Yeah, they're really fun to work with. And I'm also part of the Get Naked—they asked me to be the gala co-chair. So I'm co-chairing their gala at the New York gala, October 30th this year.
DR: Oh, cool. So if anyone's listening and wants to attend, let us know, it's at the Cipriani in Financial District. Fun.
DR: Speaking about products and, you know, the time it takes for things to actually work, some things get worse before they get better. How do you encourage your patients or clients to push through?
DR: A lot of—you see a lot of people, yeah, they have like, if they're trying to do retinoids, it's a disaster.
IMC: Yeah, because they have that purge.
DR: The purge. There's also people that get confused with retinoids and prescription strength, and then they buy a product that's…
IMC: I know.
DR: I don't get it. Like, if you're using prescription retinoids, people, you don't need retinol in your products.
IMC: Yeah, but there's a lot of confusion there and people that want to use both. And they're marketed—retinol is so heavily marketed that, like, they don't understand that if you're getting a prescription retinoid, you know…
DR: Retinoids.
DR: And then how do you determine what type of facial someone needs? Like, tell us, you know, what you think.
IMC: So I mostly only do like pre-event. That's my whole—like, that's what I love. It's like, I love the massage element.
DR: You love the glam.
IMC: And I love referring to friends. So, you know, if someone is having, you know, they're concerned with acne and really want more of like an extraction-heavy facial, my friend Sophie Pavitt has Sophie Pavitt Studio in New York, and I'm telling people all the time, like, go to her studio. She loves—you know, they really focus on acne.
IMC: There's a ton of different facials. I mean, I think pre-event, anything just like hydration, you know, focusing on massage, some soothing masks, maybe some oxygen—that's all great, like, no downtime.
IMC: And then increasing circulation. If someone's going into that situation because they're battling acne or they want to really lift pigmentation, maybe they need a peel, you know. You're going to get some downtime there, especially depending [on] the grade of the peel. Or other types of facials—I mean, lots of things you can do in a facial.
IMC: Some people, I think, you know, when I do a facial I try to combine obviously my fingers and LED, some cryo. There’s sometimes people go and they get like a piece of that.
DR: Some of my patients ask me, you know, can I get Botox and then get a facial? Not like on the same day. Like, give your Botox time to set up, which is usually very quick, like 30 minutes or so. Like, it actually hits the receptor. But don't immediately then go get like a heavy, massage-heavy facial or anything like that.
IMC: Yeah. I feel like this is where derms and [estheticians] have butt heads because I ask so many derms, like, protocol. And some people have said, oh, they can get one four hours after. People say, oh, at 30 minutes and it's in. You know, there's a lot of like old wives' tales.
IMC: Yeah. So I—my facial is super heavy. So I like there to be like a two-day period in there.
DR: You know, like, you're even more conservative.
IMC: Cautious. But I—that's, I've asked so many derms. So I'm happy to hear your take on it as well.
IMC: A lot of intake forms at spas will ask for a two-week period.
DR: Yeah, which is interesting. I think that's—two weeks is the time that it usually takes to like fully kick in. Yeah. But, you know, I'm just more cautious about like the pressure on the skin like right after the injections.
DR: And, you know, most people are not like running from this office to that office. But I feel like most of them for neuromodulator ask two weeks.
IMC: Yeah.
DR: Yeah. Which I think is, like, overly cautious, you know, but…
IMC: How long would you say for filler if…?
DR: Yeah, it depends what you're doing. Again, I wouldn't do it right after. I would give it, like, a good 48 hours to, like, set up. I mean, there are certain fillers that don't really integrate for a full, like, two weeks into the dermis, into the fat.
DR: So, but for the first 48 hours, you can sort of mold that filler if you're pressing really hard. And I tell patients that—like, I set it, they forget it, meaning like I'm putting it strategically where I think it needs to be and what they want. They're not going to go home and massage the hell out of it because they run the risk of deforming it a little bit, especially in that early 48 hours.
IMC: But some of the fillers you're supposed to massage.
DR: Yes. Unless it's like a more skin booster, skin hydrator, you need to massage that, I say, go to town. You know, Sculptra, poly-L-lactic acid, they have to massage 5-5-5. We say five minutes a day, five times a day for five days. So go for that facial.
IMC: If you give someone Sculptra, when would you allow them to see me?
DR: I don't mind them to—you can go right after, you know, because they need the massage anyway. They need to massage that. Sculptra, you know, is made out of suture material. So they really need to help break that down and make sure they don't get any lumps or bumps.
DR: So we can work together.
IMC: Yeah. That's great.
DR: So, Ian, this was an amazing conversation. You know, I learned a lot about you, actually. I didn't know your whole history. So that's awesome.
IMC: Thank you for having [me].
DR: And, yeah, thank you for being here.
IMC: I gave you all my skincare. So in true OnlyFans fashion, you can rate my skincare later on.
DR: Okay. I love it.
IMC: I'll be back, guys.
DR: Exactly. I should grab it now and do like a first reaction.
IMC: Yeah.
DR: But that's contrary to what we said. You need four weeks.
IMC: Yeah, you need to give it time.
DR: So that's a great message that we could just leave the audience. It's like there's a lot of marketing out there. You really need to give things time to work. You know, give it a critical eye and try to—brands push out SKUs all the time and that's trying to keep things fresh. But there's certain things that really do work and you need to find those products or partner with derms and estheticians.
IMC: I'm always testing being in the space. I'm going to test. I've already tried a few of your products. I'm sure I'll test all of them. But I also end up gravitating—after I've tested things and can be able to, like, have the product knowledge of, you know, whether I'm going to vouch for that product or not—I always end up going back to certain products that are my, like, holy grails.
DR: Yeah. I mean, you're always giving good face, so…
IMC: Thank you.
DR: Once you find those products, you know, unless you work in beauty, like, stick to your product until you feel like you need to get a little boost and then start by asking your derm and your aesthetician, like, where to boost it.
IMC: I love it.
DR: Thanks so much for listening. Don't miss an episode. Subscribe to Give Good Face wherever you get your podcast.